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Apparantly, Johnson told May he was going to resign tonight but then No 10 announced it before he'd actually written his resignation. 

Reminds me of someone I worked alongside years ago, he was both unpopular and not very good but thought he could wangle a pay rise by claiming he'd had another job offer and putting his notice.  His line manager just about ripped the resignation letter out of his hands and he was escorted straight off site - which was pretty unusual for resignations. 

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9 minutes ago, aaid said:

Apparantly, Johnson told May he was going to resign tonight but then No 10 announced it before he'd actually written his resignation. 

Reminds me of someone I worked alongside years ago, he was both unpopular and not very good but thought he could wangle a pay rise by claiming he'd had another job offer and putting his notice.  His line manager just about ripped the resignation letter out of his hands and he was escorted straight off site - which was pretty unusual for resignations. 

Per twatter his yet to be published resignation letter is quite the thing !

Edited by Ally Bongo
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Ian blackford there, going out on about it being a "national embarrassment". Curious choice of words for someone speaking on behalf of the SNP. I would massively distance the party from being associated with anything referring to the United Kingdom nation if it were me.

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8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Per twatter his yet to be published resignation letter is quite the thing !

I got off twitter cause i was getting messages that could be construed as intimidating and decided regardless of it being real or paranoid I was just spending a lot of time getting noticed.

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Shambolic stuff really. The problem here as is always the problem, is that the decisions taken by these politicians have very little impact on their day to day life. The real impact as is almost always the case will be felt greatest by those from working class and poor communities.

It's all just a big game to these old school chums who have nothing but their own interests at heart.

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So BoJo is saying the Brexit dream is dying.... I must say, a bit surprised as it had seemed the Chequers agreement had a stitch-up , that had muzzled the Brexitteers, if they accept that, it's game over, and compromise soft Brexit gets a clear run. But maybe that was only seemingly in the bag because they had their phones taken off them and they wanted their ministerial cars back to London. 

At this rate the Tory hard Brexiteers - who are a minority  -  seem intent on tearing the Tories apart.  If the government falls, you could almost imagine Corbyn as a calm, salfe pair of hands... strong and stable, if you like. Because, as a closet Brexiteer, he could have the conviction to lead us into a soft Brexit, while his Remainer-majority MPs would be happy not to rock the boat to get their shot at government and those ministerial limos?

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31 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said:

Some minister I’ve never heard of Chris agreement has resigned.

J

Autocorrect?

Jeremy Hunt for Foreign Sec!

 

Edited by exile
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10 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

What makes you think that .........

DhqZDlbXUAAtSPj.jpg

You'd think that was a parody. 

"In the name of democracy, depose the PM, install a Lord of my choice as PM."

(But I guess she's paid for having people talk about her, so should leave it there...)

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12 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Depends what you mean by "leave the EU". ;)

I reckon we'll end up leaving the EU but will effectively be in the Customs Union and Single Market but it'll have some different sort of name to make it more palatable.  

Freedom of Movement will no longer be in place but will be replaced by flexible labour mobility - or whatever it's called - which will effectively mean you can come to work in the the UK from the EU with no restrictions but if you don't have a job after a period of time, you won't get any benefits and can be deported.  Which is pretty much what the UK could do already with the EU but Successive governments made the - correct - decision that putting in place a system to monitor EU migrants to enforce that would be more expensive than any benefits that were paid out so didn't implement the controls.   This may or may not be reciprocated.

This will cost us a huge "divorce bill" and we'll have to pay an annual contribution, which will be smaller but not massively so, than the current net contribution, but when you take into account the divorce bill to the EU and how much the whole process is costing us, we might break even on by the end of the century.

And we'll have zero representation within the EU.

That's what leaving the EU will look like. 

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16 minutes ago, aaid said:

I reckon we'll end up leaving the EU but will effectively be in the Customs Union and Single Market but it'll have some different sort of name to make it more palatable.  

Freedom of Movement will no longer be in place but will be replaced by flexible labour mobility - or whatever it's called - which will effectively mean you can come to work in the the UK from the EU with no restrictions but if you don't have a job after a period of time, you won't get any benefits and can be deported.  Which is pretty much what the UK could do already with the EU but Successive governments made the - correct - decision that putting in place a system to monitor EU migrants to enforce that would be more expensive than any benefits that were paid out so didn't implement the controls.   This may or may not be reciprocated.

This will cost us a huge "divorce bill" and we'll have to pay an annual contribution, which will be smaller but not massively so, than the current net contribution, but when you take into account the divorce bill to the EU and how much the whole process is costing us, we might break even on by the end of the century.

And we'll have zero representation within the EU.

That's what leaving the EU will look like. 

I think you are being very optimistic that it will be as good as that.

If the UK gets a deal "effectively being in the Customs Union and Single Market with a replacement for freedom of movement" then it gives great incentives to a lot of other EU countries that are already not happy with migration and FOM

Some EU members are currently fighting on getting FOM changed

Thats even before taking into account the right wing brexiteers who are determined not to be in the CU & SM and see it as not really leaving the EU

"A" Customs Union and "A" Single Market agreement rather than being in "The" CU and SM appears extremely unlikely

If Brexit is not stopped there are only two scenarios i can see

1 - We fall out next March with no deal and come under WTO rules - the implications of this would appear to be disastrous

2 - Article 50 is paused or there is a bill in Parliament to repeal leaving next March and we are given more time to decide what we want

This would suggest a new General Election, new manifestos centered on the EU, a new PM and a new Government

There is absolutely no chance of another Remain/Leave referendum or a final deal peoples vote

Edited by Ally Bongo
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8 minutes ago, aaid said:

I reckon we'll end up leaving the EU but will effectively be in the Customs Union and Single Market but it'll have some different sort of name to make it more palatable.  

Freedom of Movement will no longer be in place but will be replaced by flexible labour mobility - or whatever it's called - which will effectively mean you can come to work in the the UK from the EU with no restrictions but if you don't have a job after a period of time, you won't get any benefits and can be deported.  Which is pretty much what the UK could do already with the EU but Successive governments made the - correct - decision that putting in place a system to monitor EU migrants to enforce that would be more expensive than any benefits that were paid out so didn't implement the controls.   This may or may not be reciprocated.

This will cost us a huge "divorce bill" and we'll have to pay an annual contribution, which will be smaller but not massively so, than the current net contribution, but when you take into account the divorce bill to the EU and how much the whole process is costing us, we might break even on by the end of the century.

And we'll have zero representation within the EU.

That's what leaving the EU will look like. 

And what laws will the European Court of Justice still have over the uk?

That’s a big bug bear for the little englanders if they still have some jurisdiction over the uk and I don’t think that could be dressed up any other way. 

Brexit is a complete and utter clusterf*ck. 

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4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I think you are being very optimistic that it will be as good as that.

If the UK gets a deal "effectively being in the Customs Union and Single Market with a replacement for freedom of movement" then it gives great incentives to a lot of other EU countries that are already not happy with migration and FOM

Some EU members are currently fighting on getting FOM changed

Thats even before taking into account the right wing brexiteers who are determined not to be in the CU & SM and see it as not really leaving the EU

"A" Customs Union and "A" Single Market agreement rather than being in "The" CU and SM appears extremely unlikely

If Brexit is not stopped there are only two scenarios i can see

1 - We fall out next March with no deal and come under WTO rules - the implications of this would appear to be disastrous

2 - Article 50 is paused or there is a bill in Parliament to repeal leaving next March and we are given more time to decide what we want

This would suggest a new General Election, new manifestos centered on the EU, a new PM and a new Government

Option 3.

England declares war on the eu members. 

The little englanders would probably think the commonwealth countries would come to England’s aid-not. 

IMO, This is about the measure of their sad thinking  

The EU has the UK cornered and there is only two ways out.

Accept their terms and capitulate or face a bleak future with WTO with a long wait.

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28 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I think you are being very optimistic that it will be as good as that.

If the UK gets a deal "effectively being in the Customs Union and Single Market with a replacement for freedom of movement" then it gives great incentives to a lot of other EU countries that are already not happy with migration and FOM

Some EU members are currently fighting on getting FOM changed

Thats even before taking into account the right wing brexiteers who are determined not to be in the CU & SM and see it as not really leaving the EU

My point is that flexible labour mobility will be something that is entirely achievable under current EU regulations so there's no incentive for any other EU country.  As part of this, the EU may implement some reforms over freedom of movement.  

Right wing Brexiteers will be mightily pissed off but short of kicking up a tremendous fuss, there won't be much they can do about it.

Don't concentrate on what the Chequers agreement says, focus on the direction of travel and how further the UK government will shift in the months to come.  That's why all the Brexiteers are kicking up so much fuss, they can see the end game. 

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34 minutes ago, antidote said:

And what laws will the European Court of Justice still have over the uk?

That’s a big bug bear for the little englanders if they still have some jurisdiction over the uk and I don’t think that could be dressed up any other way. 

Brexit is a complete and utter clusterf*ck. 

Outside of extreme ideologues, how many people really care about the ECJ?

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27 minutes ago, aaid said:

My point is that flexible labour mobility will be something that is entirely achievable under current EU regulations so there's no incentive for any other EU country.  As part of this, the EU may implement some reforms over freedom of movement.  

Right wing Brexiteers will be mightily pissed off but short of kicking up a tremendous fuss, there won't be much they can do about it.

Don't concentrate on what the Chequers agreement says, focus on the direction of travel and how further the UK government will shift in the months to come.  That's why all the Brexiteers are kicking up so much fuss, they can see the end game. 

The end game though in your possible scenario is more likely to be the end of the Conservative party as we know it, UKIP becoming relevant again and the EU being central to UK politics for decades like a sword of damocles

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33 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The end game though in your possible scenario is more likely to be the end of the Conservative party as we know it, UKIP becoming relevant again and the EU being central to UK politics for decades like a sword of damocles

Genuine question. Do you think the Labour Party would survive if they have to try and negotiate brexit after a Tory collapse?

Edited by antidote
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