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On 20/04/2017 at 10:11 PM, phart said:

You could read a bit before making a judgement lol, not sure how you could possibly make a reasoned decision 15 minutes after hearing about it.

1

5 minutes with Google indicates that none of his work is peer-reviewed and that he habitually misuses the word 'theory'. Additionally, his website has a subforum titled "Paranormal & Supernatural" along with another subforum for discussing "conspiracies of any kind, historical or current". I think it's pretty clear that the man is a crank and that looking into his work is a complete waste of time. Bash on if you enjoy browsing that kind of nonsense but it shouldn't be taken seriously.

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30 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

5 minutes with Google indicates that none of his work is peer-reviewed and that he habitually misuses the word 'theory'. Additionally, his website has a subforum titled "Paranormal & Supernatural" along with another subforum for discussing "conspiracies of any kind, historical or current". I think it's pretty clear that the man is a crank and that looking into his work is a complete waste of time. Bash on if you enjoy browsing that kind of nonsense but it shouldn't be taken seriously.

Strange comments.

I can't take you seriously. 5 minutes with Google?

You would be best spending 5 minutes reading this post mate.

I read Fingerprints of the Gods in 1994. It was a hard read for me at the time as I was challenging within my own head some of the suggestions that seemed impossible, mainly due to my pre conceived notions/education etc. His research is breathtaking. His ideas are wholly worth consideration and he has been proved right now.

The best thing about him is is that he just raises questions with specialist back up to any of his suggestions. You say that "none of his work is peer-reviewed"

What you do not seem to understand is that in Education and Research, anyone who challenges the norm, will never be peer reviewed positively, as there are big ego's at stake and published papers - effectively, you are challenging years of research of learned professors. Why would they back down without convincing evidence if their career was at stake ? It's all a bit Superstar Tradesman.

Read the book - well worth it, and I'm halfway through Magician of the Gods - Hancock always admits when he gets it wrong, but technology has changed, and he will admit when his thinking was maybe going down the wrong path, and the books read like a discussion and thinking rather than dictating. It's a research project, it's about deciphering the ancient past as a few things just don't stack up. Religion is in there too, there is much in common with all modern religions - they are not old enough and we were munching haggis and fighting the Romans because we wanted to be an independent country when Jesus was turning water into wine - if he'd come to Scotland, we'd all be raving about this guy. All religious books talk of great floods, great disasters, and all in common with ancient Chinese and Inca/Aztec and Red Indian myths. These have been passed down by spoken work for millennia.

The Sphinx has water deterioration significant of being in a tropical climate. Read up on the Piri Reris map. Read up on Pyramid construction and why we cannot build these today. (27 years as Chartered Engineer, Chartered Builder and Chartered QS - we can't build one, and even if we could - not to the tolerances and the cost would be prohibitive).

We have lost a lot of information pre pre history, something clever was going on prior to a serious "Event", and there are clues, the research and investigation might help us understand - another event is due, we just do not know when, but our ancestors were trying to tell us something.

To say after 5 minutes, Hancock is a crank and this is nonsense is not really a positive contribution to this thread.

Why don't you read things ? 

HMcG

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, HUNTINGMcGREGOR said:

Strange comments.

I can't take you seriously. 5 minutes with Google?

You would be best spending 5 minutes reading this post mate.

I read Fingerprints of the Gods in 1994. It was a hard read for me at the time as I was challenging within my own head some of the suggestions that seemed impossible, mainly due to my pre conceived notions/education etc. His research is breathtaking. His ideas are wholly worth consideration and he has been proved right now.

The best thing about him is is that he just raises questions with specialist back up to any of his suggestions. You say that "none of his work is peer-reviewed"

What you do not seem to understand is that in Education and Research, anyone who challenges the norm, will never be peer reviewed positively, as there are big ego's at stake and published papers - effectively, you are challenging years of research of learned professors. Why would they back down without convincing evidence if their career was at stake ? It's all a bit Superstar Tradesman.

Read the book - well worth it, and I'm halfway through Magician of the Gods - Hancock always admits when he gets it wrong, but technology has changed, and he will admit when his thinking was maybe going down the wrong path, and the books read like a discussion and thinking rather than dictating. It's a research project, it's about deciphering the ancient past as a few things just don't stack up. Religion is in there too, there is much in common with all modern religions - they are not old enough and we were munching haggis and fighting the Romans because we wanted to be an independent country when Jesus was turning water into wine - if he'd come to Scotland, we'd all be raving about this guy. All religious books talk of great floods, great disasters, and all in common with ancient Chinese and Inca/Aztec and Red Indian myths. These have been passed down by spoken work for millennia.

The Sphinx has water deterioration significant of being in a tropical climate. Read up on the Piri Reris map. Read up on Pyramid construction and why we cannot build these today. (27 years as Chartered Engineer, Chartered Builder and Chartered QS - we can't build one, and even if we could - not to the tolerances and the cost would be prohibitive).

We have lost a lot of information pre pre history, something clever was going on prior to a serious "Event", and there are clues, the research and investigation might help us understand - another event is due, we just do not know when, but our ancestors were trying to tell us something.

To say after 5 minutes, Hancock is a crank and this is nonsense is not really a positive contribution to this thread.

Why don't you read things ? 

HMcG

 

 

 

 

How has he been proved right?

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They've been trying to fool us with the pyramid buried deep under the Arctic/Antarctic hoax for years  - and not just in films such as AVP

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He has not asserted anything - that what my post

2 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

Anything he has asserted.

I think you may not have read my post properly - he doesn't assert anything, he just challenged science to say - this doesn't stack up. Göbekli Tepe if this is what you are alluding too has turned the main stream on it's head. The main thrust was that there was advanced technology thousands of years ago. Just as Hancock said.

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1 minute ago, HUNTINGMcGREGOR said:

He has not asserted anything - that what my post

I think you may not have read my post properly - he doesn't assert anything, he just challenged science to say - this doesn't stack up. Göbekli Tepe if this is what you are alluding too has turned the main stream on it's head. The main thrust was that there was advanced technology thousands of years ago. Just as Hancock said.

It was you who wrote " His ideas are wholly worth consideration and he has been proved right now"

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2 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

It was you who wrote " His ideas are wholly worth consideration and he has been proved right now"

?? What is the question ??

It is proof that civilization and advanced technology is older than first thought - Hancock was talking about a civilisation that was not Hunter/Gatherers but constructors/engineers/urban civilisation - Göbekli Tepe has changed everything.

 

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57 minutes ago, HUNTINGMcGREGOR said:

?? What is the question ??

It is proof that civilization and advanced technology is older than first thought - Hancock was talking about a civilisation that was not Hunter/Gatherers but constructors/engineers/urban civilisation - Göbekli Tepe has changed everything.

 

He hasn't proved anything, he may have a hypothesis that this is the case but there is no objective proof merely his interpretation of the evidence.

Edited by Larky Masher
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9 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

He hasn't proved anything, he may have a hypothesis that this is the case but there is no objective proof merely his interpretation of the evidence.

Too make it easier for you - OK - you are right. I'm off to bed. (yawn).

btw, it's not his interpretation or my own, its in all the science press globally - have a discussion/argument with them. 

G'Night from Oz.

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3 minutes ago, HUNTINGMcGREGOR said:

Too make it easier for you - OK - you are right. I'm off to bed. (yawn).

btw, it's not his interpretation or my own, its in all the science press globally - have a discussion/argument with them. 

G'Night from Oz.

It might be in the science press but it's not the scientific journals.

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Hancock is very interesting on the great pyramid complex as well. Apparently the great pyramid is built over a large natural mound that likely has had significance for a time before it was built.  Reckons the Egyptians inherited them and became their custodians of a sort. I have to say I think he is correct. Did good work with Bauval. I have not read them all but I'd guess all his books are well worth the read. Good man as well IMHO.

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8 hours ago, Stokesy said:

5 minutes with Google indicates that none of his work is peer-reviewed and that he habitually misuses the word 'theory'. Additionally, his website has a subforum titled "Paranormal & Supernatural" along with another subforum for discussing "conspiracies of any kind, historical or current". I think it's pretty clear that the man is a crank and that looking into his work is a complete waste of time. Bash on if you enjoy browsing that kind of nonsense but it shouldn't be taken seriously.

What are you blethering about?

I never cited Graham Hancock. I cited in order:

Klaus Schmidt: archaeologist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Schmidt_(archaeologist)

Patrick Symes: Jornalist for newsweek

Cardiff University, the National and Kapodistrian University of Athens, the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, the National Archaeological Museum of Athens, X-Tek Systems, UK, and Hewlett-Packard, USA. This project is funded by the Leverhulme Trust and supported by the Cultural Foundation of the National Bank of Greece. Who are working jointly on Antikythera Mechanism.

lead researcher Martin Sweatman, from the University of Edinburgh’s School of Engineering. http://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2017/ancient-stone-confirms-date-of-comet-strike

Nowhere did i even mention Graham Hancocks name. In your mind you think i did, but go look again, you'll see it doesn't exist anywhere from me. Your brain made it up, but it has no basis in reality.

 

I just ask folk read properly when addressing me, cause i've had to spend 10 minutes out my day dispelling the delusions that other boarders brains are concocting.

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7 hours ago, Larky Masher said:

How has he been proved right?

I'm not making a claim about rightness as far too little information to be so bold, however. When his book first came out it was reviewed and rejected cause there were no civilizations of the age he was talking about, by thousands of years.

This is no longer the case, in the 30 odd year gap they've found civilizations that do tack onto the time period. They've found evidence of the ancient civilization using astronomical ground works to track the stars (another of his ideas) .Gobleki Tepe predate stonehenge by 6000 years.

from yesterday https://phys.org/news/2017-04-ancient-stone-pillars-clues-comet.html

Dr Martin Sweatman, of the University of Edinburgh’s School of Engineering, who led the research, said: "I think this research, along with the recent finding of a widespread platinum anomaly across the North American continent virtually seal the case in favour of (a Younger Dryas comet impact).

"Our work serves to reinforce that physical evidence. What is happening here is the process of paradigm change.

"It appears Göbekli Tepe was, among other things, an observatory for monitoring the night sky.

“One of its pillars seems to have served as a memorial to this devastating event – probably the worst day in history since the end of the ice age.”

Edited by phart
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3 hours ago, thplinth said:

The great pyramid also has this very subtle kink running down the middle of each face. It is really only noticeable in sharp relief light conditions.

ikonos.gif

The Pyramids have lost their outer casing, so basically measuring a ruin... one that was so well built it can't really be a ruin.

Always makes me wary of any measurements.

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9 hours ago, HUNTINGMcGREGOR said:

?? What is the question ??

It is proof that civilization and advanced technology is older than first thought - Hancock was talking about a civilisation that was not Hunter/Gatherers but constructors/engineers/urban civilisation - Göbekli Tepe has changed everything.

 

I agree Göbekli Tepe has changed the standard view on cultural development but I'd be wary of claiming it required an urban civilization. There's a huge developmental gap between a hunter-gather society and an urban civilization. Agrarian societies didn't develop an urban culture for millennia, never mind the other criteria normally associated with civilization such as some form of writing system.

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57 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

I agree Göbekli Tepe has changed the standard view on cultural development but I'd be wary of claiming it required an urban civilization. There's a huge developmental gap between a hunter-gather society and an urban civilization. Agrarian societies didn't develop an urban culture for millennia, never mind the other criteria normally associated with civilization such as some form of writing system.

I thought there was massive grain deposits allowed them to be stationary there. Not sure if that's relevant but I wouldn't say they were hunter gatherer exclusively for the whole time. Some big changes appeared to happen. For instance :

" Recent DNA analysis of modern domesticated wheat compared with wild wheat has shown that its DNA is closest in sequence to wild wheat found on Karaca Dağ 30 km (20 mi) away from the site, suggesting that this is where modern wheat was first domesticated.[34] Such scholars suggest that the Neolithic revolution, i.e., the beginnings of grain cultivation, took place here. Schmidt believed, as others do, that mobile groups in the area were compelled to cooperate with each other to protect early concentrations of wild cereals from wild animals (herds of gazelles and wild donkeys). " Site of Einkorn Wheat Domestication Identified by DNA Fingerprinting, Science, 278 (1997) 1312–14

So some paradigm shift appears to have happened here.

Not sure how relevant but an interesting point.

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16 minutes ago, phart said:

I thought there was massive grain deposits allowed them to be stationary there. Not sure if that's relevant but I wouldn't say they were hunter gatherer exclusively for the whole time. Some big changes appeared to happen. For instance :

" Recent DNA analysis of modern domesticated wheat compared with wild wheat has shown that its DNA is closest in sequence to wild wheat found on Karaca Dağ 30 km (20 mi) away from the site, suggesting that this is where modern wheat was first domesticated.[34] Such scholars suggest that the Neolithic revolution, i.e., the beginnings of grain cultivation, took place here. Schmidt believed, as others do, that mobile groups in the area were compelled to cooperate with each other to protect early concentrations of wild cereals from wild animals (herds of gazelles and wild donkeys). " Site of Einkorn Wheat Domestication Identified by DNA Fingerprinting, Science, 278 (1997) 1312–14

So some paradigm shift appears to have happened here.

Not sure how relevant but an interesting point.

Agreed, it could well be that we are looking at the agricultural revolution being radically re-dated. To what extent this represents a paradigm shift I'm not sure, as the current paradigm still holds (hunter-gatherer to Neolithic revolution to, eventually, 'civilization') but within a reworked time-frame. My point was really regarding 'urban civilization' as this, in its conventional definition, requires elements that don't seem to be necessitated by the Göbekli Tepe discoveries so far. There's still clearly a huge amount of work to be done though.

Natural disasters destroying civilizations is well documented in the case of Minoan Crete.

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12 hours ago, phart said:

I'm not making a claim about rightness as far too little information to be so bold, however. When his book first came out it was reviewed and rejected cause there were no civilizations of the age he was talking about, by thousands of years.

This is no longer the case, in the 30 odd year gap they've found civilizations that do tack onto the time period. They've found evidence of the ancient civilization using astronomical ground works to track the stars (another of his ideas) .Gobleki Tepe predate stonehenge by 6000 years.

from yesterday https://phys.org/news/2017-04-ancient-stone-pillars-clues-comet.html

Dr Martin Sweatman, of the University of Edinburgh’s School of Engineering, who led the research, said: "I think this research, along with the recent finding of a widespread platinum anomaly across the North American continent virtually seal the case in favour of (a Younger Dryas comet impact).

"Our work serves to reinforce that physical evidence. What is happening here is the process of paradigm change.

"It appears Göbekli Tepe was, among other things, an observatory for monitoring the night sky.

“One of its pillars seems to have served as a memorial to this devastating event – probably the worst day in history since the end of the ice age.”

Someone else was making claims about "rightness" and it was him I was replying to,  Sweatman's statement is more appropriate as the language "virtually seal the case in favour", "It appears Göbekli Tepe was.."One of its pillars seems to have served", "probably the worst day in history" is much more measured. 

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Don't mess with wild donkeys!

130565d1446120050-damn-wild-donkeys-scre

 

OK, so some early settlements / granaries / cultural meeting points seem to have come and gone.   Places where people first met in larger numbers perhaps.

I see they are described as "Pre-Pottery Neolithic".   That suggest to me a lack of beer!   I.E. folk will need clean, uncontaminated water, but with people living in larger groups there would be risk of epidemics (as well as occasional bad harvests) that could wipe out these early groups.   No need for extra terrestrial cataclysms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Revolution#Disease

 

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