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Listened to a bit of that last night, very sad. 

It's made even worse when we get arseholes like Gordon McQueen commenting and saying "heading the ball never done me any harm" as if that means it's never done any one any harm. 

I've been given stick on here before for saying that i think we should stop children 12 and under from heading footballs, in order to reduce injury when their brain is developing and to try and prevent problems in later life. Hopefully we don't need too many more ex-pros to suffer before football authorities wise-up. 

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Is there conclusive evidence about heading the ball causing dementia? You'd think the older players who played with a heavy ball, say before the tango came out, would have more chance of getting it.

It may be linked to pugilist dementia but you never hear of football players who are 'punchy' like. 

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1 hour ago, Parklife said:

I've been given stick on here before for saying that i think we should stop children 12 and under from heading footballs, in order to reduce injury when their brain is developing and to try and prevent problems in later life. Hopefully we don't need too many more ex-pros to suffer before football authorities wise-up. 

I'm in agreement with you. I also think it might help stop the kick it high and run type guff that ruins bairns skills early on.

Sad news on Frank though. :(

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1 hour ago, scoobydoo said:

Is there conclusive evidence about heading the ball causing dementia? You'd think the older players who played with a heavy ball, say before the tango came out, would have more chance of getting it.

It may be linked to pugilist dementia but you never hear of football players who are 'punchy' like. 

There does seem to be a disproportionate amount of ex-pros who are developing brain conditions like dementia and Parkinson's in later life.

Last week on the radio I heard Davie Sneddon jr, son of the Killie legend who is now suffering from progressive dementia. Six of the 1965 title winning team have either died or are suffering from brain illnesses.  He seems to have done a lot of investigation into the problem and said he'd spoken to a family who's dad had developed dementia although he'd been a goalkeeper. Turns out even the keepers were made to head medicine balls repeatedly in training to build up their neck muscles!

 

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9 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

There does seem to be a disproportionate amount of ex-pros who are developing brain conditions like dementia and Parkinson's in later life.

Last week on the radio I heard Davie Sneddon jr, son of the Killie legend who is now suffering from progressive dementia. Six of the 1965 title winning team have either died or are suffering from brain illnesses.  He seems to have done a lot of investigation into the problem and said he'd spoken to a family who's dad had developed dementia although he'd been a goalkeeper. Turns out even the keepers were made to head medicine balls repeatedly in training to build up their neck muscles!

 

Interesting, cheers.

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1 hour ago, scoobydoo said:

Is there conclusive evidence about heading the ball causing dementia? You'd think the older players who played with a heavy ball, say before the tango came out, would have more chance of getting it.

It may be linked to pugilist dementia but you never hear of football players who are 'punchy' like. 

Not that i have seen, plenty of speculation. 

I'd say the fact that players are living longer these days is more to do with the fact that more are dying due to dementia, whereas in the past many have died of heart attacks, strokes etc. 

Who knows but i'd imagine boxers/rugby players would be much more at risk than footballers. 

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38971750

This was reported as the first clear, researched link between heading the ball and dementia, although it is a very small sample and the researchers themselves make clear that far more research needs to be done. The media tend to be very bad at how they report this sort of stuff though. I remember at the time even the researchers themselves said that the effects of heading an old leather heavy ball (particularly when wet) would be different to those of modern, lighter balls, and they also made it clear they were talking about ex-professionals who were heading the ball every day repeatedly in training and not folk who play one or twice a week. I think I also saw somewhere that there is research being done at University of Stirling too. All that said my suspicion is that at some point in the not too distant future there will be some sort of ban on kids younger than 12 or so heading in organised games or at training.

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Is there not a fitba documentary due out on the BBC about Dementia shortly.. I remember the one John Beattie did about rugby players but that was more concussion but i think there is evidence that the two are linked. 

I have also heard Gordon Smith suggest that children under 12 not head the ball as is now the way in the USA and some European nations . 

We will only be aware in the next few years if this will be an epidemic from years of heading sodden leather ball. 

It's a horrible disease mostly for loved ones as the person who has it is less aware than those around and it never gets better only worse. 

 

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Stopping children under the age of 12 heading the ball seems like a sensible move, IMHO.   The brain is still growing at that age and they'd be better off improving their passing and dribbling technique anyway.

I'm not convinced yet that there is a direct link though between heading the ball and Alzheimer's.  It could be that its a good example of where a correlation does not necessarily lead to a causation.  

 

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

and they'd be better off improving their passing and dribbling technique anyway.

 

Spot on. A huge part of us falling behind in World football is because of the dinosaurs still intent on screaming at bairns to get up and under the ball finishing moves with young laddies rattling their skulls off of size 5s. 

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Guest faircity

My old man has Alzheimers, he is mid 60s now but has been in a home for 8 or 9 years and it truly is a disgusting illness. 

His decline from diagnosis to was outrageosly quick, im talking weeks here. 

I had him out one christmas eve, he knew everybody, cracking away, having a laugh, knew he had Alzheimers at this point  and three days later he was in hospital, never knew who I was when I visited that day and never has since. Heart breaking stuff. The way medication is used on these people is a disgrace and in my opinion those prescribing have a lot to.answer for. 

After attending numerous medication reviews the doctors stubbornly refuse to even consider toying with medication and it is basically a box ticking exercise. I lay the blame for the acceleration firmly at their door. 

He is still alive but doesnt speak, cant walk, shows zero emotion. Its not even an existance. 

He played against Jim Baxter, Alex Ferguson amongst others, not sure if heading a ball is responsible for it in any way but it truly is a horrible condition and any research into it is welcomed as far as im concerned. 

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3 hours ago, Ormond said:

Spot on. A huge part of us falling behind in World football is because of the dinosaurs still intent on screaming at bairns to get up and under the ball finishing moves with young laddies rattling their skulls off of size 5s. 

You don't use size 5s in Scotland till you're 13 or 14.   And I've seen very little evidence of these dinosaurs you're talking about in my years in kids football. There are many reasons we've fallen behind, but bad coaching at a young age is not a significant one I don't think.  It's all about the ball on the ground on immaculate astro turf pitches these days.

if I had to blame one thing it's a lack of places for kids to play unsupervised, e.g. beautiful million pound school pitches chained up at the weekend, and if I had to blame another it would be FIFA17 on the Xbox.  

Man's then I'd probably just blame our small league, our small population and then Rangers or something. 

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I did wonder how relevant heading the ball would be to younger kids, at least in organised training or games. I know nothing about kids football really, but had assumed (hoped?) that things had moved on from the days of 10 year olds playing 11-a-side on full sized football pitches to something like Adam outlines. Our neighbours kid trains at the Spartans academy in Edinburgn and I was really impressed with what I saw there.

Also, to repeat it, the suggestion, so far at least, is that it is heading the heavier old balls in training repeatedly, day after day, that would have had an effect and may have a link to dementia.

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12 hours ago, adamntg said:

You don't use size 5s in Scotland till you're 13 or 14.   And I've seen very little evidence of these dinosaurs you're talking about in my years in kids football. There are many reasons we've fallen behind, but bad coaching at a young age is not a significant one I don't think.  It's all about the ball on the ground on immaculate astro turf pitches these days.

if I had to blame one thing it's a lack of places for kids to play unsupervised, e.g. beautiful million pound school pitches chained up at the weekend, and if I had to blame another it would be FIFA17 on the Xbox.  

Man's then I'd probably just blame our small league, our small population and then Rangers or something. 

Trying to get coaching is a nightmare though. Several times my boys training has had to be cancelled because Aberdeen council point blank refuse to allow people to help out. 

Mysef and another parent have been at them to allow us to take badges etc,even at our own expense so the kids can train every week if the regular coach isn't available. 

Now I understand that we need to be checked against our backgrounds for anything dodgy,but no one is even allowed to be in the training of 2 coaches aren't there. Has to be 1 coach for every 8 kids and they won't budge on it. 

I've got all my background checks for working in schools with my day job,but need a completely different one to be in a room with them. 

I realisese I've gone away on a tangent here,but my wife is away getting her eyebrows done and I'm in the car,bored,with only looking out for traffic wardens my only escape at the moment. 

Btw,I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. 

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2 hours ago, dandydunn said:

Trying to get coaching is a nightmare though. Several times my boys training has had to be cancelled because Aberdeen council point blank refuse to allow people to help out. 

Mysef and another parent have been at them to allow us to take badges etc,even at our own expense so the kids can train every week if the regular coach isn't available. 

Now I understand that we need to be checked against our backgrounds for anything dodgy,but no one is even allowed to be in the training of 2 coaches aren't there. Has to be 1 coach for every 8 kids and they won't budge on it. 

I've got all my background checks for working in schools with my day job,but need a completely different one to be in a room with them. 

I realisese I've gone away on a tangent here,but my wife is away getting her eyebrows done and I'm in the car,bored,with only looking out for traffic wardens my only escape at the moment. 

Btw,I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. 

You can sign up to do the required SFA courses yourself, although if you are with a club they will usually pay for it.    http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/sfa.cfm?page=3616

It's not expensive, first course (Early Touches 1.1) lasts a day, the second (Coaching Young Footballers 1.2) is two days.  Once you've done those two, and you have an up to date PVG you can coach a team.  The third level (Coaching in the Game) is the first to feature a practical assessment but once you've done that you know enough to coach kids constructively.  You could do all three courses for under £200 I reckon, although my club paid for mine so not sure exact pricing.

I don't think we can really quibble about the child protection requirements given the current climate, it's just a wee bit of paperwork.  No more difficult than opening a bank account or getting a credit card.

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I'll have a look into that courses,cheers. 

Im certainly not quibbling about the PVG,just more that I already have one to work in primary schools,but need another and they seem less than keen to let people nominate themselves to apply.  

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On 08/03/2017 at 10:25 AM, Parklife said:

Listened to a bit of that last night, very sad. 

It's made even worse when we get arseholes like Gordon McQueen commenting and saying "heading the ball never done me any harm" as if that means it's never done any one any harm. 

I've been given stick on here before for saying that i think we should stop children 12 and under from heading footballs, in order to reduce injury when their brain is developing and to try and prevent problems in later life. Hopefully we don't need too many more ex-pros to suffer before football authorities wise-up. 

I would agree with that and go further by just banning it altogether. Never did Alan Hansen any harm. He headered the ball less than a dozen times in his entire professional career. They have virtually banned tackling already so I don't think that doing away with headers would be any bigger change than that.

 

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3 hours ago, dandydunn said:

I'll have a look into that courses,cheers. 

Im certainly not quibbling about the PVG,just more that I already have one to work in primary schools,but need another and they seem less than keen to let people nominate themselves to apply.  

Aye, seems PVGs are not transferable and you need one for each organisation you work for.  Maybe to stop Flying Paedos?  Who knows.

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10 minutes ago, adamntg said:

Aye, seems PVGs are not transferable and you need one for each organisation you work for.  Maybe to stop Flying Paedos?  Who knows.

It's the only thing I can think of. 

It's not really a valid gripe I've got to be fair,at least something is being done to check these things nowadays. 

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21 hours ago, faircity said:

My old man has Alzheimers, he is mid 60s now but has been in a home for 8 or 9 years and it truly is a disgusting illness. 

His decline from diagnosis to was outrageosly quick, im talking weeks here. 

I had him out one christmas eve, he knew everybody, cracking away, having a laugh, knew he had Alzheimers at this point  and three days later he was in hospital, never knew who I was when I visited that day and never has since. Heart breaking stuff. The way medication is used on these people is a disgrace and in my opinion those prescribing have a lot to.answer for. 

After attending numerous medication reviews the doctors stubbornly refuse to even consider toying with medication and it is basically a box ticking exercise. I lay the blame for the acceleration firmly at their door. 

He is still alive but doesnt speak, cant walk, shows zero emotion. Its not even an existance. 

He played against Jim Baxter, Alex Ferguson amongst others, not sure if heading a ball is responsible for it in any way but it truly is a horrible condition and any research into it is welcomed as far as im concerned. 

Sorry to read about that, especially happening to a relatively young man, sounds like a nightmare indeed.

 

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