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6 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Yeah. Young, up and coming players aren't as good as the 3 best male players in history. 

And it's a complete false equivalency anyway as those 3 players are at the later stages of their careers.

Besides, Serena is the best ever ladies player, that didn't stop Osaka.

Let's say we compare it to when Murray was a "young, up and coming player". Murray was what, 21 when he got to number 2 in the world? He was 24 when he won his first slam. And bear in mind, this is when Nadal, Fed and Djokovic where 7+ years younger and more into their prime. Reached his first slam final at 22.

Borna Coric is 22 and his highest ranking is 12. He's as of yet, to advance past the 4th round of a slam.

Alex Zverev is 21, highest ranking is 3rd. Best result In a slam is quarter final.

Domic Thiem is 25. Highest ranking is 4th and he got to one slam final.

Kygios is 23. Reached two quarter finals and his highest ranking is 13.

If you want to further the conversation then you might want to provide a wee bit more than sarcasm. 

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32 minutes ago, Chripper said:

And it's a complete false equivalency anyway as those 3 players are at the later stages of their careers.

Besides, Serena is the best ever ladies player, that didn't stop Osaka.

It didn't stop her beating Serena one time. Correct. Thiem, Zverev, Kyrgios have all beaten the top guys. 

32 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Let's say we compare it to when Murray was a "young, up and coming player". Murray was what, 21 when he got to number 2 in the world? He was 24 when he won his first slam. And bear in mind, this is when Nadal, Fed and Djokovic where 7+ years younger and more into their prime. Reached his first slam final at 22.

Borna Coric is 22 and his highest ranking is 12. He's as of yet, to advance past the 4th round of a slam.

Alex Zverev is 21, highest ranking is 3rd. Best result In a slam is quarter final.

Domic Thiem is 25. Highest ranking is 4th and he got to one slam final.

Kygios is 23. Reached two quarter finals and his highest ranking is 13.

If you want to further the conversation then you might want to provide a wee bit more than sarcasm. 

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue to be honest. If it's that some of the younger guys should've achieved more, given their talents then i'd agree. 

You're earlier post stated "Whereas Thiem, Zverev, Coric, etc, are nowhere near Nada, Federer or Djokovic. "

Which is pretty obvious. Young up and coming guys aren't as good as the 3 best in history. Great insight. Thanks. If you want to further the conversation than perhaps give an opinion as to why you think these guys should be doing better and where they're failing. 

To me, Zverev is the biggest quandary. He's won Masters, he won the Tour Finals, beating the very best on the way to doing so. I don't know if it's a focus thing but all too often he makes hard work of best of 5 set matches and suffers for it later in tournaments. He's tremendously talented, so it can only be mental issue. 

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15 minutes ago, Parklife said:

t didn't stop her beating Serena one time. Correct. Thiem, Zverev, Kyrgios have all beaten the top guys. 

Osaka is the only player who has a winning record against Serena. She has a 2:0 record against Serena, which includes a Slam Final in Serena's own doorstep. That to me trumps all of the three players you mentioned, combined.

18 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Which is pretty obvious. Young up and coming guys aren't as good as the 3 best in history. Great insight. Thanks. If you want to further the conversation than perhaps give an opinion as to why you think these guys should be doing better and where they're failing. 

In this day and age up and coming ends when you're 21. Not saying that you should be winning slams but you should at least be appearing in slam finals, etc, on a consistent basis. The players that I mentioned will take up the mantle when "top 4 retire", the standards will drop, as neither of those players will end their careers being labelled as "one of the best ever".

22 minutes ago, Parklife said:

To me, Zverev is the biggest quandary. He's won Masters, he won the Tour Finals, beating the very best on the way to doing so. I don't know if it's a focus thing but all too often he makes hard work of best of 5 set matches and suffers for it later in tournaments. He's tremendously talented, so it can only be mental issue.

It's definitely a mental issue. He was strolling it against Chardy, 2 sets to love, and for some reason he just switched off and allowed Chardy back into the match. Yes, Zverev won the 5th set to 1, but it should never have gotten to that stage in the first place. Nishikori did the same thing with Karlovic, but Nishikori's situation was worse as he had to win a match tie-break.

 

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7 minutes ago, Chripper said:

In this day and age up and coming ends when you're 21

I don't agree with that at all. Physically, some guys just aren't ready to be at the very, very top by then. Jez Green has talked of a "3 year plan" to get Zverev where he needs to be physically. 

Rafa was a man at 17/18, with Djokovic not too far behind. Even Federer was almost 22 when he won his first slam. 

Everyone grows and develops at different rates, with careers lasting longer and longer, i don't think you can make blanket statements about when individuals are fully developed and ready to compete at the very top of one of the most physically demanding sports there is. 

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15 minutes ago, Parklife said:

I don't agree with that at all. Physically, some guys just aren't ready to be at the very, very top by then. Jez Green has talked of a "3 year plan" to get Zverev where he needs to be physically. 

Rafa was a man at 17/18, with Djokovic not too far behind. Even Federer was almost 22 when he won his first slam. 

Everyone grows and develops at different rates, with careers lasting longer and longer, i don't think you can make blanket statements about when individuals are fully developed and ready to compete at the very top of one of the most physically demanding sports there is. 

I'm not saying that the aforementioned names should be all dominating the Slams, but if they really were world class then they'd be challenging. None of them ever make an impression at the slams. The top 4 are ageing, Murray is going, Fed will be next and then Rafa and Djokovic, so you'd think that the younger players would be pressing them, but they aren't. Alright, Tsitsipas beat Federer, but it was a bit of an anomaly. How many times have you seen Federer have 12 break points and not take any? Not many.

 

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