£15,000 Poppy Fine

[Lion Rampant]

The SFA/FA asked permission to display poppies and were told by FIFA that we were not permitted to do this, we did it regardless and we think that we can appeal the fine, seriously?

Regardless of anyone's feelings regarding FIFA and their ability to govern world football, they are the ruling body and we need to abide with their laws and guidelines whether we agree with them or not. If we have asked permission and had that refused that should have been the end of it.

The FA seem to be continually spoiling for a fight with FIFA and this is just another example of this.

[ErsatzThistle]

Dear SFA

Pay the feckin fine and never do any of this cringeworthy pish ever again.

[aaid]

3 hours ago, thewelk said:

If booing anthems is a political statement, anthems must be political. Ban them!

That comes under "disrespect" rather than political statement in FIFA regulations.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by aaid

[Marky]

From what I can gather (and I'm prepared to be corrected) the only opinions on here that appear to be undivided are those of all the Rangers fans who appear to support the SFA's stance. 

Is this a measure of the all Rangers fans unionist indoctrination or just a happy coincidence. 

[ceudmilefailte]

Just now, Marky said:

From what I can gather (and I'm prepared to be corrected) the only opinions on here that appear to be undivided are those of all the Rangers fans who appear to support the SFA's stance. 

Is this a measure of the all Rangers fans unionist indoctrination or just a happy coincidence. 

I'm not a Rangers fan and your comments show just how sad some nationalists are.

[Marky]

25 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I'm not a Rangers fan and your comments show just how sad some nationalists are.

Can't see how you've worked that out. I made an observation and I even said I was prepared to be corrected. I could've made the same observation regardless of whether I was a nationalist, a unionist or neither.

Are you able to correct my observation or do you just want to point and shout "look at the nasty Nat!"?

[adamntg]

8 hours ago, Marky said:

Can't see how you've worked that out. I made an observation and I even said I was prepared to be corrected. I could've made the same observation regardless of whether I was a nationalist, a unionist or neither.

Are you able to correct my observation or do you just want to point and shout "look at the nasty Nat!"?

Well, you could drop the observation about Rangers and just suggest that it seems to be Unionists who are pro-poppy.  Surely this would strongly suggest there's an underlying political agenda, even if they don't admit it.  In fact, they may not even realise it themselves....

[Guest BlueGaz]

10 hours ago, Marky said:

From what I can gather (and I'm prepared to be corrected) the only opinions on here that appear to be undivided are those of all the Rangers fans who appear to support the SFA's stance. 

Is this a measure of the all Rangers fans unionist indoctrination or just a happy coincidence. 

Can only speak for myself, but my stance is 100% nothing to do with the football team I support.  Categorically.  Probably more the way I was brought up with dad in the army and then I joined from school.  Would accept the word indoctrination when I was younger, which is obviously a massive foundation, but certainly not these days.  I am old enough and ugly enough to look at both sides of a debate and make my own mind up these days.

[Langtonian]

22 hours ago, Lion Rampant said:

The SFA/FA asked permission to display poppies and were told by FIFA that we were not permitted to do this, we did it regardless and we think that we can appeal the fine, seriously?

Regardless of anyone's feelings regarding FIFA and their ability to govern world football, they are the ruling body and we need to abide with their laws and guidelines whether we agree with them or not. If we have asked permission and had that refused that should have been the end of it.

The FA seem to be continually spoiling for a fight with FIFA and this is just another example of this.

Exactly this

[Marky]

54 minutes ago, adamntg said:

Well, you could drop the observation about Rangers and just suggest that it seems to be Unionists who are pro-poppy.  Surely this would strongly suggest there's an underlying political agenda, even if they don't admit it.  In fact, they may not even realise it themselves....

But my observation wasn't about unionists. I'd expect unionists to be pro poppy/SFA's stance because of the very fact that we've discussing i.e. that it has become a symbol of Britishness.

My observation wasn't even necessarily about Rangers fans, it was about Rangers fans on here. And I was prepared to be shot down. I just found it an unusual coincidence, especially given that our Rangers fans on here tend to be in the good guy category.
 

41 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Can only speak for myself, but my stance is 100% nothing to do with the football team I support.  Categorically.  Probably more the way I was brought up with dad in the army and then I joined from school.  Would accept the word indoctrination when I was younger, which is obviously a massive foundation, but certainly not these days.  I am old enough and ugly enough to look at both sides of a debate and make my own mind up these days.

I hear you Gaz, but isn't indoctrination just that? It kinda sticks with you?

[Guest BlueGaz]

2 minutes ago, Marky said:

But my observation wasn't about unionists. I'd expect unionists to be pro poppy/SFA's stance because of the very fact that we've discussing i.e. that it has become a symbol of Britishness.

My observation wasn't even necessarily about Rangers fans, it was about Rangers fans on here. And I was prepared to be shot down. I just found it an unusual coincidence, especially given that our Rangers fans on here tend to be in the good guy category.
 

I hear you Gaz, but isn't indoctrination just that? It kinda sticks with you?

Yes, but I would argue only whilst you are naive or "learning"?  Once you are "wiser", for want of better words (shut it parkie), I would argue you are better placed to make your own mind up.

[Marky]

31 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Yes, but I would argue only whilst you are naive or "learning"?  Once you are "wiser", for want of better words (shut it parkie), I would argue you are better placed to make your own mind up.

Hmmm I suspect that for some this may be true, but for a large proportion of people I suspect it isn't.

I do accept though, that being ex-military yourself and coming from a military family, you're probably not a great example of what I was getting at.

You then get someone like RenfrewBlue who I'm pretty sure was Pro Independence, but seems to be pro poppy (not sure if he's pro SFA stance?).

My point was really that (without knowing what team everyone on here supports - hence my being prepared to be corrected) it seemed that only Rangers fans were united in their stance.

I did looked to see if there was an opposite and equal stance with Celtic fans, but other than PASTA Mick I'm not sure if any other Celtic fans have contributed to this thread.

 

[Flure]

On 21/12/2016 at 10:14 AM, Lion Rampant said:

The SFA/FA asked permission to display poppies and were told by FIFA that we were not permitted to do this

That's not what happened.

They were pointed by FIFA to the rulebook and told that if any breach was found, the appropraite disciplinary committee would be asked to investigate.

At no time, prior to the match, were any of the FAs told not to have a poppyfest.

[Guest BlueGaz]

2 hours ago, Marky said:

Hmmm I suspect that for some this may be true, but for a large proportion of people I suspect it isn't.

I do accept though, that being ex-military yourself and coming from a military family, you're probably not a great example of what I was getting at.

You then get someone like RenfrewBlue who I'm pretty sure was Pro Independence, but seems to be pro poppy (not sure if he's pro SFA stance?).

My point was really that (without knowing what team everyone on here supports - hence my being prepared to be corrected) it seemed that only Rangers fans were united in their stance.

I did looked to see if there was an opposite and equal stance with Celtic fans, but other than PASTA Mick I'm not sure if any other Celtic fans have contributed to this thread.

 

I think I am fortunate in that respect.  I don't live in a world where football is related in any way to political views.  Not that I am aware of anyway.  I voted no, and now I am torn, and I have Rangers ST holder friends/family who are a total mixed bag, and even work for the SNP.  My sons RC and is a ST holder.  So I wouldn't normally relate Yes/No to Rangers/Not Rangers.  I feel quite lucky to be fair 

Edited December 22, 2016 by BlueGaz

[Saltirescot]

The SFA were stuck between a rock and a hard place as they would have been hammerred by the tabloid press and the British Unionists for refusing to follow Englands poppy lead but they knew very well that FIFA were going to cop them a fine which duly materilaised.

£15,000 is a wee slap on the wrists and should be paid up with a wee wry smile as the alternative fall out for not falling in line woulld have been brutal.

No doubt the issue will arise again in the future as these comical and cringeworthy 'poppyfests' seem to grow arms and legs with each passing year.

 

[Marky]

8 minutes ago, Saltirescot said:

The SFA were stuck between a rock and a hard place as they would have been hammerred by the tabloid press and the British Unionists for refusing to follow Englands poppy lead but they knew very well that FIFA were going to cop them a fine which duly materilaised.

£15,000 is a wee slap on the wrists and should be paid up with a wee wry smile as the alternative fall out for not falling in line woulld have been brutal.

No doubt the issue will arise again in the future as these comical and cringeworthy 'poppyfests' seem to grow arms and legs with each passing year.

 

What I think the SFA should have done is publicly state that they wouldn't stop anyone who wanted to wear a poppy from wearing one, nor would they insist.

[ceudmilefailte]

Just now, Marky said:

 I'd expect unionists to be pro poppy/SFA's stance because of the very fact that we've discussing i.e. that it has become a symbol of Britishness.

 

Away you go and play with your Xbox

[Malcolm]

The poppy has nothing to do with 'britishness' or unionism.  It is a simple symbolism of remembering individuals, human beings that made the ultimate sacrifice.  Anyone who suggests otherwise IS policising it. I spent some time visiting the battlefields and graves of WW1 and it is deeply affecting.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

The poppy has nothing to do with 'britishness' or unionism.  It is a simple symbolism of remembering individuals, human beings that made the ultimate sacrifice. 

I agree and it never used to be

Unfortunately Westminster and Blair changed all that after Iraq 

[ErsatzThistle]

8 hours ago, Malcolm said:

The poppy has nothing to do with 'britishness' or unionism.  It is a simple symbolism of remembering individuals, human beings that made the ultimate sacrifice.  Anyone who suggests otherwise IS policising it. I spent some time visiting the battlefields and graves of WW1 and it is deeply affecting.

Aye right.

[dipped flake]

12 hours ago, Malcolm said:

The poppy has nothing to do with 'britishness' or unionism.  It is a simple symbolism of remembering individuals, human beings that made the ultimate sacrifice.  Anyone who suggests otherwise IS policising it. I spent some time visiting the battlefields and graves of WW1 and it is deeply affecting.

twnety years ago you would be correct. Nowadays, it has been hijacked and is all about Britishness. For the first time since I was 5 I didn't wear a poppy this year as I was so fed up with the poppy fascists 

[DoonTheSlope]

On 22 December 2016 at 8:56 AM, Marky said:

But my observation wasn't about unionists. I'd expect unionists to be pro poppy/SFA's stance because of the very fact that we've discussing i.e. that it has become a symbol of Britishness

 

15 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Away you go and finger yer crusty broon hoop ya spangle

FTFY

[PapofGlencoe]

I'm not into the Poppy Haters, who i think are actually more vocal than folk that just wear the poppy..  

FIFA can't be seen to allow one thing over the other.  Balkan states with different tensions or others can end up doing political gestures which can have unwelcome consequences.

End of the day, either wear it or not ( i dont' think we should personally...never made such a big thing of it before) and pay the fine if that's what is required.

If we claim independence i'm sure we'll end up doing something ( a la Ireland), pay the fine.  get on with it.

[Marky]

16 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Away you go and play with your Xbox

Really, you seem to be the one making childish remarks.

And when I was young enough to play with an Xbox I don't think computers had even been invented.

[RenfrewBlue]

On 21/12/2016 at 9:44 PM, Marky said:

From what I can gather (and I'm prepared to be corrected) the only opinions on here that appear to be undivided are those of all the Rangers fans who appear to support the SFA's stance. 

Is this a measure of the all Rangers fans unionist indoctrination or just a happy coincidence. 

You need corrected.  I'm an SNP member, campaigned for independence but agree with the SFA stance. 

You, like so many folk,  seem to think Rangers fans have a single opinion on any subject. Utterly ridiculous viewpoint and obviously false.