Robroysboy Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 We're England fined for booing FOS ? Both anthems were equally booed. In our defence they booed our anthem first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Ffs... booing any anthem is disrespectful and I don't agree with it, but there should not be fined. Political correctness gone mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 FIFA have acted correctly. We deserve all we get over this. The wee outraged poppy fanatics on this thread When's the protest outside FIFA HQ in Zurich happening ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 3 hours ago, adamntg said: I don't care if other people want to wear one, it's a free country. However, for senior employees of the SFA to foist it on the rest of us as if there's some kind of unanimity of opinion is out of order. The Eatablishment don't want to acknowledge it, but the poppy divides as much as it unifies. You can use your emperor-new-clothes argument if you want, but I'm no fool and it feels like a political symbol to me, and its use by the British Government since Iraq reinforces my opinion. Exactly how was a poppy foisted on you? The team wore poppies you could have your own choice. You're just desperate to be offended over nothing. Not sure why there should need to be any unanimity of opinion either. The SFA can make their own mind up without asking all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said: Exactly how was a poppy foisted on you? The team wore poppies you could have your own choice. You're just desperate to be offended over nothing. Not sure why there should need to be any unanimity of opinion either. The SFA can make their own mind up without asking all of us. The poppy was foisted on the teams by a decision made by the English FA and the political elite at Westminster. Can you imagine the outcry if the SFA decided not to bother and just let England have the poppy on their shirts ? However i doubt that was even considered or any minds to make up as the SFA is a bigger Unionist cabal than the Tory party If you dont believe that and cannot see the political shenanigans because of the current climate in the UK behind this decision i give you a picture from England v Yugoslavia - played on November 11th 1987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLT NY Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm old enough to remember 1987. It was a different time, and going to the football in those days was a lot different in many ways than it is now. FIFA included this statement in their announcement today... "In the stadium and on the pitch, there is only room for sport, nothing else." Don't know about you, but I couldn't agree more. It seems like there's a minute's silence before almost every single game these days. It used to be that you'd see one about once a season. That's when it actually meant something. Nowadays most of the crowd don't even have a clue what they're supposed to be remembering half the time. There's many things I'd change about football and society in general, but one of the first things is this fake charity that's invaded us lately. If you really care so much about whatever cause you're asking people to recognise, go on and take a year or two out and work at actually making a difference. Don't just wear a t-shirt and then pretend that anyone not doing the same is less of a person because of it. All this poppy paraphernalia should never have been brought into the Wembley match. It's Nov. 11th a century after the war was taking place. People are adult enough to appreciate that and to take stock of it in their own way without it also invading a football game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 9 hours ago, Malcolm said: This. I have zero respect for FIFA. The polarising opinions this invokes demonstrates just what a political issue it is. Ergo FIFA are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 15 hours ago, Fermer said: We all have principles. IMO the home nations were right to wear poppies. If they buckle and pay the fines I will be disappointed. Get back to home nations again then. Least we have a chance of qualifying. Who did poppies upset? 15 hours ago, Fermer said: FIFA are upset because we did wear one. So if only people you have seen getting upset is people that werent wearing one. Well, work it out. I'm ever so surprised at your opinion. You could not be more of a caricature if you tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said: Exactly how was a poppy foisted on you? The team wore poppies you could have your own choice. You're just desperate to be offended over nothing. Not sure why there should need to be any unanimity of opinion either. The SFA can make their own mind up without asking all of us. I'm not desperate to be offended, I just have a different opinion to you. It happens. You think it's appropriate for an SFA autocrat to decide that the Scottish representative football team should all wear symbols honouring British war dead (which has become a defacto symbol of support for the British Army) whether the players, the supporters or anybody else agrees with him? What if he decided to wear Malvinas patches on the arms? Or what if I, or someone with my opinions, was selected to play in that team? It's inappropriate that support for a political cause is foisted on our representative football team. It is supposed to represent all of Scotland, not just mainstream, orthodox, loyal Scotland. I'm not offended, but I think it's not right. Edited December 20, 2016 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I think the FA's made the right decision, however, they were told not to and thems the rules, so the fine is justified. The fact the fine was so low says quite a lot to me too. I am starting to agree with what Colt mentions about the Poppy appeal starting to get a wee bit out of hand, but it generates a lot of funds and I know quite a few people who have benefited from it, when they genuinely needed it, so I am a bit torn. But maybe more importantly, I respect those that don't want anything to do with it, just as much as those that do, I just don't care to hear from either side for weeks and weeks on end about it. SFA should just pay the fine and move on, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 If the poppy being worn on the team's shirts had really been a sincere and honest attempt to honour the war dead then i would have been all for it However it wasnt. It was clearly a politically charged act by an out of touch elite desperately trying to cling onto British values of the 40s and 50s which have been manufactured since Blair. For the record i do wear a poppy for the 5 days before remembrance Sunday - not a day before and not a day after It should be a personal thing and not a carrot for public opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 23 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: If the poppy being worn on the team's shirts had really been a sincere and honest attempt to honour the war dead then i would have been all for it I don't think you or I are in a position to say that. Far to sweeping generalisation. It was clearly a politically charged act by an out of touch elite desperately trying to cling onto British values of the 40s and 50s which have been manufactured since Blair. I disagree. It has been growing year-on-year since before Blair obviously, and although I appreciate your stance, you can't put this on one person. For the record i do wear a poppy for the 5 days before remembrance Sunday - not a day before and not a day after Have worn it 2 weeks prior to remembrance and not a day after, since the mid 80s. It should be a personal thing and not a carrot for public opinion Agree, and I believe in the vast majority of cases it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanticscot Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 There were/are different ways to honor the lost without needing to wear a poppy on their jerseys, that being said they were warned before the game, and as much I am for saving money I think on this occasion they should pay the fine without appeal. They can(if its true) show a statement that they valued honoring the lost over money. However the SFA appear to be more interested in money so they will appeal which from a PR perspective in my view, is another losing move. 15K is not allot of money, would it not be better to have spent that 15k on a veteran home? I would still go ahead and make that gesture regardless and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGP Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I don't want to get in to the nuts and bolts of it because I do my thing and you all can do yours because it is a personal choice whether you commemorate or not. We need to pay this fine without appeal and move on. None of this CAS nonsense to determine whether it is political or not - that's a waste of time and money - we accept the consequences of defying a direct order of FIFA statutes. We were told in perfect clarity before the matches that there would be consequences. The fine is simply the cost of our FA's doing the right thing politically (in their eyes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 37 minutes ago, romanticscot said: would it not be better to have spent that 15k on a veteran home? I would still go ahead and make that gesture regardless and more. From a commercial point of view and a bit irrelevant in this discussion, I wonder if the whole polava surrounding the situation this year added a lot more than 15k to the pot, purely because it happened. Maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 5 hours ago, adamntg said: I'm not desperate to be offended, I just have a different opinion to you. It happens. You think it's appropriate for an SFA autocrat to decide that the Scottish representative football team should all wear symbols honouring British war dead (which has become a defacto symbol of support for the British Army) whether the players, the supporters or anybody else agrees with him? What if he decided to wear Malvinas patches on the arms? Or what if I, or someone with my opinions, was selected to play in that team? It's inappropriate that support for a political cause is foisted on our representative football team. It is supposed to represent all of Scotland, not just mainstream, orthodox, loyal Scotland. I'm not offended, but I think it's not right. The players, I'm sure, would have had the chance to say no if they felt differently. I don't hear any of them complaining about being forced to wear the armband against their principles. Yet again you say it's a political emblem when it isn't. The money raised or poppy sales helps support a charity, nothing else. Your conflation of the poppy and loyal Scotland, whatever that's meant to mean, is just nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said: The players, I'm sure, would have had the chance to say no if they felt differently. Yeah, it;s not like the one player in the UK who refuses to wear a poppy each year is plastered all over the front of papers and has received death threats for his stance.... Quote Yet again you say it's a political emblem when it isn't. It is. The fact we're even discussing it kind of shows that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 The poppy never used to be a political emblem but it certainly is now and it is most angering and very insulting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) 51 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said: The players, I'm sure, would have had the chance to say no if they felt differently. I don't hear any of them complaining about being forced to wear the armband against their principles. Yet again you say it's a political emblem when it isn't. The money raised or poppy sales helps support a charity, nothing else. Aye, I'm sure they would. Tacit acceptance is not the same as endorsement. Just lucky we've never had a conscientious objector or pacifist who happened to be good at football in this country, eh? The money raised helps to support a charity for soldiers injured while fighting wars as part of their job. Are you telling me wars are not political? How about raising money for the hunt saboteurs? Is that not a political act? Or raising money for SPUC? I'm sure they're a charity, but it's hardly a neutral, uncontentious act. Edited December 20, 2016 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 1 hour ago, RenfrewBlue said: The players, I'm sure, would have had the chance to say no if they felt differently. I don't hear any of them complaining about being forced to wear the armband against their principles. Yet again you say it's a political emblem when it isn't. The money raised or poppy sales helps support a charity, nothing else. Your conflation of the poppy and loyal Scotland, whatever that's meant to mean, is just nonsense. the poppy was hijacked years ago by the government and right-wing papers and is now very much a political symbol. People are forced to wear it if they want to appear on the telly (BBC especially) and, as someone else pointed out, the only footballer I know that refused to wear a poppy on his shirt has been villified in the press and on the terraces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newryrep Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 FFS Cookie monster had to wear one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 6 hours ago, dipped flake said: the poppy was hijacked years ago by the government and right-wing papers and is now very much a political symbol. People are forced to wear it if they want to appear on the telly (BBC especially) and, as someone else pointed out, the only footballer I know that refused to wear a poppy on his shirt has been villified in the press and on the terraces I concur. PS FIFA are dicks too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelk Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 If booing anthems is a political statement, anthems must be political. Ban them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) The Poppy as a remembarance symbol has been tarnished in my opinion. Its about personal choice.Whether intentional or not there is a terrible culture now regarding are you with us or not. Really sad. Edited December 21, 2016 by EddardStark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 On 20/12/2016 at 8:06 AM, Parklife said: I'm ever so surprised at your opinion. You could not be more of a caricature if you tried. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.