Diamond Scot

Exactly, but whether and how much he connects with the ball is part of how the ref considers whether it was careless or reckless.

The problem with what you say is that its not what the rules are. Nowhere in law 12 does it mention that any contact has to be enough to make the opponent go down. Very few fouls that are correctly awarded in football would result in a person going to ground. If a person is kicked on the leg in a non football context then the natural thing to do would be hop about abit, not fall to the ground. In football though its accepted that players fall over when kicked. Thats what happened here, Johnstone swung and kicks Silva. I dont think anybody is disputing that. The only consideration then is whether the ref thinks its in careless / reckless. If it is then its a penalty. I saw that whilst also saying Silva and players like him do my nut in. He was rolling about trying to get Celtic players booked or sent off all game. He was very much looking for Johnstone to connect with him but thats then what happened.

So you are saying if player A kicks the ball full on but on his follow through kicks Player B then thats a foul? Because thats blatantly not correct. Whereas in the same scenario, if Player A misses the ball and only kicks player B then that is a foul.

Its a foul and a penalty anywhere on the pitch, any day of the week. Johnstone catching Silva above the knee whilst attempting to kick the ball. Out of interest, what makes you think its not a foul? As I said earlier, the only thing that could have made it not a foul is if he had taken alot of the ball beforehand. From the replays Sky showed, he swings for the ball, either misses it or doesnt get alot of it, starts to fall back and follows through onto Silva leg (who then goes down easy but as expected)

If the defending player kicks the ball then then follows through onto the attacker then how much contact he makes with the ball 100% matters. Another thing that annoys me watching OF games is how its generally accepted that the ref can just apply the rules differently. Scales had a deliberate pull of a Rangers player who was then going to go into the attacking 3rd. Its a yellow all day long but because it was only 5 mins in he just gets a warning. Likewise, CCV walks up and flicks the ball away, preventing Rangers taking a free kick. Again, a yellow all day yet because its early in the game he gets a warning. Ironically the booking Khun gets was the least deserving of this and the above 2 but because it was 20 odd mins in he gets given one. I understand that if its a questionable foul then use abit of discretion but you cant just not book somebody because it might put them and the ref in a difficult decision later in the game. This indirectly affects other teams as a natural result of this type of refereeing results in the OF having less players suspended. It doesnt happen in any other derby or game.

Really poor game in terms of quality but action and incident packed. I normally like Sutton but having him commentate on this match is pointless as there is the natural bias. I thought Rangers penalty was a dive real time. But when you see the replay Silva is caught about the knee. He goes down easy and might have gone down anyway but Sutton just repeatedly said he was already down at the point of contact, even though at the same time you were getting numerous replays showing that wasnt the case. What this did was take away from the other aspect which was how much did Johnstone touch the ball. Unfortunetly Sky didnt even show that part of the replay. CCV was the standout for Celtic. Tavinear, Goldson and Lawrence were shocking for Rangers who were lucky to get a draw.

Sadly you are correct. Its not just the west coast however in my experience its certainly more day to day in the west coast.

Lively and dangerous is a fair assesment but also ineffective. As I said previously, not all of this is down to him and is something that he will improve on no doubt. I think RW is his position as he can cut inside but also go down the line. He has very quick feet and low centre of gravity. Salah is the perfect role model for him which is why im not overly fussed about him going out on loan, providing he still gets decent game time at Liverpool.

But surely every person is responsible for their own behaviour ragardless of who they are. If more "common" people / football fans stopped acting this way like it was normal behaviour then perhaps it would be easier to call it out when somebody in the public eye does it. Anybody who acts this way is being a bigot, theres obviously levels of bigots. I dont believe you or McCoist let it influence their day to day like alot of people do. Ie there are people who wont mix with people of other faiths etc but casual bigotry is still a big problem. Takes a bigger man to address his own faults than to highlight others.

The amount of people who dont understand laws worrys me at times. Its fuelled by the media and quite often the politicians themselves. The police currently have the authority to arrest somebody for pretty much any act that most reasonable people would agree was criminal. What they dont have is the political will to allow them to do so. Police are under specific instructions not to arrest people at football matches, their policy is to observe and if neccesary door stop in future weeks. The issue is that the bar for criminality for them to take such future action is stupidly high that they rarely do it. Ie they will watch somebody commiting an aggrivated S38 / BOP but do nothing as long as that person isnt putting others safety at risk. Ie throwng a flare into opposition fan section. They will know a crime is being committed however are under direction not to action it or follow up on it. In turn the allows the law breakers to carry on and often believe that what they are doing isnt actually a crime.

Ramy, you have openly admitted to being a "90 minute bigot" on here previously who sings all the rebel songs, songs in support of the IRA etc. Does that make you and absolute scumbag aswell? For the record I think McCoist is a great example of everything that is wrong about the west coast of Scotland. That its fine to be openly bigoted as long as you are a funny, cheaky chappy who has like minded Catholic mates who give you the banter back.

I think if he had remained fit then he might have been in the March friendlys squad. He would have played the rest of Liverpools Europa games, the cup games and some games when Salah was in Africa. Its not that he has played badly for Liverpool this season. Ive pretty much watched all his games and to me its a combination of teammates not giving him the ball at the right times, them not being on the same wavelength when it comes to being on the end of his good stuff, some poor / inexperienced decision making on his part and then the normal drifting in and out of games that alot of young players have. You are correct on the Hungary game however we need to remember that was U21 level. Its the type of performance that gives people so much hope with him but I think he needs to do something similar for Liverpool before he gets called up. Gilmour for example got motm against Liverpool in the cup where he made experienced top level pros look silly. He then followed it up with several top performances in the league. Doaks time will come but I just dont think not including him prior to his injury is a stick to beat Clarke with.

Doak came on in the 1st game of the season away to Chelsea. Didnt do much but to be fair to him his teammates didnt really give him the ball. Since then he played in the Europa, often subbed off either at half time or around 60 mins. He looks dangerous in parts but its not quite clicking for him as yet. Ive no fears over him, he will be a top talent but he isnt there yet and throwing him into the main Scotland team could do more harm than good. His time will come.

So Clarke brings in a good few young players early but they dont count because they now have lots of caps? Surely thats to Clarkes credit? Personally I think Ferguson should have had a cpl more sub appearences and should have started last weeks friendlies but he still got good minutes. I like him but he isnt currently better than our starting players. He has also done zero zero in a Scotland shirt to push for a start. He has 12 caps and zero goals. I could be wrong but I cant remember an assist either. Even above that, remind me of 1 good thing he has done, a pass, a tackle etc that would make it hard for Clarke to leave out? Doak has been underwheming for Liverpool this year. He gets a pass as theres huge potential but again has done nothing to merit a call up. And I say that as somebody who is really excited by him.

Hickey is 21, Gilmour is 22, Patterson is 22 and Ferguson is 24. All are regulars in the team / squad. Which young player do you think should be in the squad but arent. Doig is captain of U21s so worthwhile him getting gametime there rather than being on bench for A squad. Doak is injured but before that hasnt set the world alight for Liverpool this season so promoting him to A squad wouldnt have been justified and may have been too much too soon imo. Clarkes record on bringing young players into the squad and then the team is better than any manager in my lifetime. Players need to be good enough to earn an international call up. Previous managers have been too quick to call up flavours of the month or flash in the pans. The result is an unsettled squad and caps not being earned. Nowadays to get a call up and then a cap is an achievement. As it should be!!!

I believe that when a foul is given, thats the relevent point. Nothing that occurs after that counts (unless its violent conduct, dissent etc)

Both Adams and Dykes have done a shift for Scotland in previously years. At a time when Shanklands game wasnt where it is at now so im not sure Clarke can be criticised for not playing Shankland then. I think most agree that Dykes and Adams form both at club and international level has dropped this season. Shankland has upped his game and become more rounded. Hence why he has forced his way into the starting conversation rather than being talked about as one who might make the squad. As I said, he started against Holland to see if he could pass the test, he did. Its only natural Dykes then plays against NI as he is still in mix. As you say, McTom and McGinn at this point are undroppable. They play in the position that is most suited to Ferguson. Both Gilmour and McGreggor have put in several outstanding performances for Scotland and naturally play in the deeper roles. Its unfortunate for Ferguson but there is no need to rip the strongest part of the team up to shoe horn him in. If Ferguson had put in an outstanding performance, scored a vital goal or done something abit special then he would have a stronger case but he hasnt. He is a quality player but at this point he isnt a starter in our strongest 11. Everyone has their views but I just cant get on board with McGinn as a lone striker and I doubt anybody else will either. Its a mute point as 100% it will not happen.

Im not following your logic here. Shankland got 70 odd minutes but thats not enough over 2 games but Dkyes got 70 mins in just one game and Adams about 40 over 2 games yet Dykes and Adams are Clarkes clear favourites? Would it not make more sence to say that Clarke doesnt doubt Shanklands ability to score against teams like NI but there were questions about the rest of his game against top level opponents. Hence why he started the Holland game. (And passed that test btw as Clarke stated after). Ferguson is not currently a better player than McTomminay or McGinn in the attacking mid positions. I agree that id have liked to have seen him start one of the games however as big a fan as I am of him, he has done nothing in a Scotland shirt to push himself into the team. As for McGinn up front, I have no idea what you are basing this on. He is probably the laziest player in our team, doesnt have pace, cant win headers, doesnt have skill in terms of beating a man and has to my knowledge never played up front in his life. If the above is your basis for criticising Clarke then I suggest you rest your case.

Nobody is saying every game doesnt matter but clearly some games are more important than others. Especially in terms of results. As others have pointed out Clarke has got the results when it matters. Back to back euro qualification, play off for world cup and promotion to the top league of nations league. In terms of competitive games what more do you think he should have achieved? Qualifying for the wolrd cup aswell as the other 2 majors aftee us not qualifying for over 20 years previously? If you cant see that we were a really good footballing team for the 1st 70 mins against Holland then I cant help you. Name another performance before Clarke where we have dominated a tier 1 nation in such a way. Almost every good result I can remember against a top side has been a backs to the wall smash and grab. Yes the result was poor and we collapsed but these are lessons that need learned. All this talk of being lucky in qualification is nonsence. Every team carrys good and back luck. Wa sit unlucky Hickey slipped in Spain or the questionable VAR decision. Was it unlucky the Holland GK pulled off a world class save from Christie at nil nil? We have had some poor performances under Clarke. ROI being the main one that springs to mind but we have had way more good than bad. NI was unacceptable, really poor but it was a friendly. It doesnt affect anything at the end if the day.

Worringly yes. Reason to sack the manager. Not even close. As much as tonight was unacceptable and the other 2 games you mention we werent at our best. None of them mattered. Clarke was given a remit of getting us to our 1st majors in 20 years. He not only did that but got us to consecutive euros, putting in some top performances along the way. On top of that we topped our nations league group and are now in the highest grouping in that competition. He has exceeded realistic expectations which has in turn raised the bar. He has choosen to play friendlys against the very best nations because he thinks its whats needed to make us better. That would always come with a risk of taking some doings but he did it as he believes it will pay off. Up until tonight we have been playing like a really good footballing team for a 2 or 3 years now. Tonight was a throw back to darker times but lets just hope we can get back to where we were.

Will be easy to answer my question then. What players does Clarke have that others didnt. Its not like a Gareth Bale or Robbie Keane type player has emerged on his watch. We have a really good squad atm however prior to Clarke alot of our best players like Robertson, Tierney, McGinn and McTominnay struggled to perform for Scotland. The fact they perform so well now is partly down to Clarke. Tonights team had 6 top flight regulars starting. It had 3 championship players, a Saudi league player and Evertons 3rd choice RB. For comparison I picked a random game around the same time of the year in 2014 and we had 7 EPL players starting, 2 Scottish Prem (Celtic) and 1 championship player. Its not like Clarke has 11 champions league regulars taking the field where all he needs to do is send them out there and they will get results.

What players does Clarke have that previous managers havent? Gilmour & Hickey? Our players are about the same standard now as they have always been. Clarke got them playing in a style that suited them. Solved the Robertson / Tierney issue. The likes of McGinn and McTomminay kicked on for their club after finding form under Clarke. He have lost 1 game out of 7 that id expect us to win. A draw in Georgia and a draw at home to Norway arent disasters, especially given the injuries and nothing riding on the games. Tonight was very poor, worringly poor but people need to give themselves a shake. Comparing us to a top nation like some are on here is stupid. We are not a tier 1 footballing nation like France, Spain, England etc. The fact we are even thinking about competing at that level is down to the work Clarke and the squad have done.

This was the Scotland of old. I thought we had finally clicked that when you play poor sides that sit behind the ball that you need to brave rather than patient. Almost every time a player decided to take on their opponent they got success and we were in behind. Even when they lost the ball more often than not it went out for a shy or NI did nothing with it. So its a high reward low risk scenario.

Shockingly poor tonight. Back to the old days where we think possession equals control. NI were comfortable. Everytime we got the ball in midfield our 1st thought was the safe pass backwards. Dykes has a role to play but it has to be from the bench. McGinn is such a strange player. So often does nothing and then scores or creates a goal however when he doesnt score or create he is often very poor. Said it on Friday but Patterson has zero confidence. Personally I didnt think Ferguson did much. We were crying out for wingers tonight. Armstrong did well when he came on but it was a game where it wouldnt matter if we lost the in the final third as they had loads of players behind the ball but we just seemed like we didnt want to run at defenders and commit them.

We have 3 left backs who are regular starters in England, Spain and Italys top flight. 2 of which are top top players. Our 4th choice left back is Celtics 1st choice left back. At right back we have a regular starter in the EPL and a squad player in the EPL. Thats pretty strong if you ask me.