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Rossy

Can Even The No Voters Agree That Scotland's Place Is Now Diminished ?

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OK, the voting's done and the democratic will of the people won through.

But do any of the No voters think that Scotland is now diminished in the eyes of many ?

Do you agree that there's now a significant danger that these 'extra powers' will never appear, since last week we were arguing from a position of strength, and today we're arguing from a position of weakness ?

Do you feel that the power of the Scottish parliament is possibly now weakened, maybe destroyed ?

Do you agree or disagree that this opens up a door for those who would like to 'punish' Scotland for daring to even hold a referendum ?

Do you feel that our identity as a 'nation' has now been destroyed ?

I'm honestly interested to know from those who voted No, as to how they think that Scotland is a better place this morning,and how they think that the idea of a Scottish identity has been strengthened.

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I honestly believe that those silent no voters, Moira and John, sitting there in front of their tele every night eating their dinner and maybe having a wee read of the record from time to time can't be blamed here. They thought they were voting against the bad guys. Nobody except the traditional media could get to them and it turns out there are quite a lot of them.

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please dont invite comments from the Smugs....if i had my way they would off this board

Eddard's been OK.

The other trolls we know about and can ignore. I'm disappointed that Andriemack has decided to be so gloating...he's been on this board for a while and should know better.

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I honestly believe that those silent no voters, Moira and John, sitting there in front of their tele every night eating their dinner and maybe having a wee read of the record from time to time can't be blamed here. They thought they were voting against the bad guys. Nobody except the traditional media could get to them and it turns out there are quite a lot of them.

That is exactly right....it was a mistake to specifically target the Tories.....Moira and John never saw the grass roots movement, and even that movement, which was a joy to behold until 2 weeks to go, became more and more radicalised at the big gatherings.

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Eddard's been OK.

The other trolls we know about and can ignore. I'm disappointed that Andriemack has decided to be so gloating...he's been on this board for a while and should know better.

Yes, I know some of them are intelligent and civil, I just can't get my head around why they would support Scotland, and then vote for England

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I honestly believe that those silent no voters, Moira and John, sitting there in front of their tele every night eating their dinner and maybe having a wee read of the record from time to time can't be blamed here. They thought they were voting against the bad guys. Nobody except the traditional media could get to them and it turns out there are quite a lot of them.

Precisely. I don't understand the comments that are being levelled at ordinary people who voted No yesterday.

Yes, there were a lot of No voters that would never have voted Yes, no matter what the campaigns had said. These were the hard-Nos, and nothing changes their minds.

However a lot of the genuine undecideds who eventually picked No had heard nothing but scare stories week after week, and the currency issue won't have helped our cause one bit. When they looked at their lot in life and realised things weren't too bad it is perfectly understandable why they might vote No. Hell, I saw signs outside polling stations yesterday saying "Vote NO - it's not worth the risk".

We can't accuse the majority of these people of being selfish - most of them won't be wealthy and they simply don't want to risk losing what little they have. I don't blame them for that.

Edited by Jie Bie

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Yes, I know some of them are intelligent and civil, I just can't get my head around why they would support Scotland, and then vote for England

Talking to the No voters in my work the common theme is that they just don't think independence was worth the risk.

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Fair points Jie Bie. I know my a few who had real concerns going into the polling booth because of the onslaught that came their way. My mum agonised for months but despite being very unsure about the situation with pensions (despite my best efforts to clarify them), she still voted Yes. But it was tough. It's too simple to blame voters.

Our beef must be with the establishment: the elite, the media, the No parties. The bombardment was massive.

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Talking to the No voters in my work the common theme is that they just don't think independence was worth the risk.

So they settled for the certainty of Broken Britain....their kids will be grateful

I guess we just have to say that most people didn't feel Scottish enough to want independence, and that will not change in our lifetime

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You clearly will never understand but today I and I am sure others do not have a sense of victory far from it. I have no desire to gloat, if yes guys at work want to talk about it fair enough, but I want to drive Scotland on now and move on.

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People need to look beyond what is in front of their nose.

The neo liberal consumerist pish has bound folk to be slaves to the markets. Its a sorry state of affairs and very very depressing.

The media aren't going to do it for us as they are part of the machine, as phart often says 'the man off the telly told me'

We had one chance, 45% stood firm and could see some hope, the rest too busy and lacking in vision. I do think enough could have been persuaded if it was a fair fight. It wasn't.

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You clearly will never understand but today I and I am sure others do not have a sense of victory far from it. I have no desire to gloat, if yes guys at work want to talk about it fair enough, but I want to drive Scotland on now and move on.

you should have voted YES then

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Talking to the No voters in my work the common theme is that they just don't think independence was worth the risk.

this - and some must genuinely feel they we actually benefit from being in the UK. Its been pointed out to me by various foriegn people that Glasgow and Edinburgh benefit massively from 10s of thousands of Financial Services jobs that just wouldnt be here if we diditn have that link with London - in terms of shared regulation, currency etc. We have a special position in these markets as we have that link and the neccessary professional education but also benefit from the costs savings of not actually being based in expensive London or having to live beside annoying Eastenders types.

These people were here trying to copy how we attract so many Financial Services jobs from all round the world and one of the key thing they identified was the above, which they cant hope to copy.

I've said from day one the vote was completely the wrong way round - not enough detail and certainties set out by the the YES party.

If we are going to do it - do it right.

Negoitiate first with the EU or prove we can go it ourselves if they refuse.

We were never going to be truly independent without a Central Bank - Be Brave and have our own currency.

Chance is gone for another generation as there was too much tyring to have our cake and eat it.

Too much emotional launguage in the YES campaign and asking pragmatic Scots for a leap of faith but not enough details.

If there is a next time our standard reply cant be a dismissive "Oh thats just scaremongering" - as these voters were obviosuly genuinely scared.

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OK, the voting's done and the democratic will of the people won through.

But do any of the No voters think that Scotland is now diminished in the eyes of many ?

From the outside looking in, possibly - living & working here. no.

Do you agree that there's now a significant danger that these 'extra powers' will never appear, since last week we were arguing from a position of strength, and today we're arguing from a position of weakness ?

No I still think we're in a power of strength to an extent as 55%/45% is not a massive majority. If WM don't stick to what they said, we'll be offski within 5-10 years, if they want to keep us, as it seems, they can't risk that.

Do you feel that the power of the Scottish parliament is possibly now weakened, maybe destroyed ?

No, I feel it has been strengthened by the increase in people taking an interest in polotics that has been shown by the major increase in turnout.

Do you agree or disagree that this opens up a door for those who would like to 'punish' Scotland for daring to even hold a referendum ?

No, I don't think they can risk that as I said above

Do you feel that our identity as a 'nation' has now been destroyed ?

No, not at all. We were Scotland yesterday & we're Scotland today.

I hope that answers some of your questions Rossy :ok:

Yes, I know some of them are intelligent and civil, I just can't get my head around why they would support Scotland, and then vote for England

Nobody I know voted for England - you are doing the "typical English" thing of confusing England & Britain

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OK, the voting's done and the democratic will of the people won through.

But do any of the No voters think that Scotland is now diminished in the eyes of many ?

Do you agree that there's now a significant danger that these 'extra powers' will never appear, since last week we were arguing from a position of strength, and today we're arguing from a position of weakness ?

Do you feel that the power of the Scottish parliament is possibly now weakened, maybe destroyed ?

Do you agree or disagree that this opens up a door for those who would like to 'punish' Scotland for daring to even hold a referendum ?

Do you feel that our identity as a 'nation' has now been destroyed ?

I'm honestly interested to know from those who voted No, as to how they think that Scotland is a better place this morning,and how they think that the idea of a Scottish identity has been strengthened.

Haven't been on the board for quite some time, maybe 6 months or more, apart from the odd pop on around games.

I voted No, in Fife.

I only decided 2 weeks ago to vote No. The way I educated myself on the whole matter was influenced by Flure. A long time ago he pointed me in the direction of independent documents. I honestly can't remember exactly what it was, can can't be bothered looking.

I listened to the arguments of both sides, then I went away and tried (didn't always succeed) to find out the truth, on my own. I have read many documents, I have watched many videos and clips of those that are considered experts, and I came to the conclusion that it was too much of a risk, for my kids.

I dont trust Salmond, I equally don't trust Sturgeon, and I also appreciate the vote wasn't for them. However, they were the main spokes people for the Yes vote. I will add, I also don't trust Darling and what he had to say. But, I thought his argument was stronger.

I had issues with the Yes campaign. I proved (to myself) that there were a lot of lies. Simple questions, weren't answered and were publicly and openly swerved, and I didn't like this. I wanted Salmond to point me in the right direction, SHOW me that it was possible, and he didn't.

I wanted to vote Yes, and ended up voting No. I wanted independence. I still do. But only if it is possible, and IMO its not, at the moment.

In terms of the OPs questions, no, I don't think Scotland is diminished. I think it is no different than it was last week, and my efforts will go into Devo Max now.

Yes, there is obviously a danger that the promises from the English government won't be followed through, but, if this is the case, and I don't 'think' it will be, it opens up the whole issue again and who knows what will come of that.

No, I think the Sottish government will get stronger, particularly after the mourning is complete.

I suppose it does open the door for those that would like to punish us, for daring to hold a referendum, but if that does happen, again, Scotland will become even stronger and as above, who knows what will happen at that point. You can't have your cake and eat it.

No, I don't feel our nation has been destroyed. But I also don't think it has been strengthened. Although contrary to that, maybe, it will speed up the process of more devo. Maybe.

I suspect I will get a bit of hassle here, but you would be mistaking me for someone who gives a shit what you think, if you feel it necessary.

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No, I feel it has been strengthened by the increase in people taking an interest in polotics that has been shown by the major increase in turnout.

That can only be true if this interest continues. Somehow, I doubt that will be the case. I'll predict that turnout will be back to it's original piss-poor state for the next set of elections, both Holyrood and Westminster.

The extra No voters got what they wanted and will return to their normal apathy. The extra Yes voters will be so disheartened they will return to their normal apathy.

IMO, only a Yes vote would have mainained the extraordinary interest this referendum has created.

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I listened to the arguments of both sides, then I went away and tried (didn't always succeed) to find out the truth, on my own. I have read many documents, I have watched many videos and clips of those that are considered experts, and I came to the conclusion that it was too much of a risk, for my kids.

Better start saving for their education.

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