Can Even The No Voters Agree That Scotland's Place Is Now Diminished ?

[Little Mac]

Better start saving for their education.

And their health.

Man his kids are going to be so happy once they realise they were screwed by their own parent.

To be fair to BlueGaz, at least he made an informed decision. He went out and looked for answers instead of just listening to the mainstream media. He may have reached different conclusions to you, but he made the effort. There are hundreds of thousands of people out there who didn't bother doing any research to help make the most important political decision they may ever make. These are the people who are more deserving of your ire, although I'm not sure 'deserving' is the right word.

'Sheeple' right enough.

[Hessen]

I had issues with the Yes campaign. I proved (to myself) that there were a lot of lies. Simple questions, weren't answered and were publicly and openly swerved, and I didn't like this. I wanted Salmond to point me in the right direction, SHOW me that it was possible, and he didn't.

Which specific lies do you mean?

[Armchair Bob]

Yea let's do it right next time...

In about god knows when.

When the baby boomers are dead.

[Rossy]

I appreciate the answers from the No voters.

Obviously I'm going to disagree with their assertions that somehow Scotland has been strengthened rather than diminished by this result.

I simply feel that whereas last week we were arguing from a position of strength regarding new, devolved powers...we're now arguing from a position of complete weakness. I have no doubt that Cameron et al will try to get some new powers devolved, but I feel that the backlash from backbench MP's, their constituents, and the English media is going to be poisonous.

Make no bones about it, there's going to be a growing number south of the border who will be determined never again to see Scotland have this much 'power' in its own hands.....there'll be a drive to destroy Salmond, the SNP and completely neuter the voice of the 45% who wanted independence.

Rather than strengthen the Scottish parliament, I can forsee measures to weaken it....to make sure that what we've just had can never again happen.

I do believe that those who voted in good faith for No, believing that Scotland will be strengthened by substantial 'Devo-Max' powers, were naive in the extreme and are going to be bitterly disappointed. By that time though, it'll be too late.

[ShedTA]

definitely diminished. a laughing stock with the people of a lot of other countries. was in the pun with an aussie girl who has been over here for a while. she voted yes, could not understand why people would vote any other way.

[islayscot]

Now we are part of the UK, everyone to be treated equally, I fully expect other parts of the nation (England, Wales etc) to demand equal spending per head everywhere. If I lived there that's what I would demand. Knock on effect on Scotland will be reduced budget and ultimately lower living standards.

If it was a Yes, which I voted and campaigned for, I would fully expect the responsibility of making it work and if things went wrong, it would be on my head

[Glasgowmancity]

Now we are part of the UK, everyone to be treated equally, I fully expect other parts of the nation (England, Wales etc) to demand equal spending per head everywhere. If I lived there that's what I would demand. Knock on effect on Scotland will be reduced budget and ultimately lower living standards.

Good, let them.........just as soon as they put as much per head in

Edited September 19, 2014 by Glasgowmancity

[glasgow jock]

Haven't been on the board for quite some time, maybe 6 months or more, apart from the odd pop on around games.

I voted No, in Fife.

I only decided 2 weeks ago to vote No. The way I educated myself on the whole matter was influenced by Flure. A long time ago he pointed me in the direction of independent documents. I honestly can't remember exactly what it was, can can't be bothered looking.

I listened to the arguments of both sides, then I went away and tried (didn't always succeed) to find out the truth, on my own. I have read many documents, I have watched many videos and clips of those that are considered experts, and I came to the conclusion that it was too much of a risk, for my kids.

I dont trust Salmond, I equally don't trust Sturgeon, and I also appreciate the vote wasn't for them. However, they were the main spokes people for the Yes vote. I will add, I also don't trust Darling and what he had to say. But, I thought his argument was stronger.

I had issues with the Yes campaign. I proved (to myself) that there were a lot of lies. Simple questions, weren't answered and were publicly and openly swerved, and I didn't like this. I wanted Salmond to point me in the right direction, SHOW me that it was possible, and he didn't.

I wanted to vote Yes, and ended up voting No. I wanted independence. I still do. But only if it is possible, and IMO its not, at the moment.

In terms of the OPs questions, no, I don't think Scotland is diminished. I think it is no different than it was last week, and my efforts will go into Devo Max now.

Yes, there is obviously a danger that the promises from the English government won't be followed through, but, if this is the case, and I don't 'think' it will be, it opens up the whole issue again and who knows what will come of that.

No, I think the Sottish government will get stronger, particularly after the mourning is complete.

I suppose it does open the door for those that would like to punish us, for daring to hold a referendum, but if that does happen, again, Scotland will become even stronger and as above, who knows what will happen at that point. You can't have your cake and eat it.

No, I don't feel our nation has been destroyed. But I also don't think it has been strengthened. Although contrary to that, maybe, it will speed up the process of more devo. Maybe.

I suspect I will get a bit of hassle here, but you would be mistaking me for someone who gives a shit what you think, if you feel it necessary.

I voted YES Gaz....but that was a very honest post & i respect you for that, I suspect there where many more thousands like you last night, my own brother in law included.

[thplinth]

Who are the plastics now?

It was the most unfair fight imaginable but today I still feel ashamed to be Scottish.

I can't help it, it is horrible.

Diminished? We are finished in all but name.

[ShedTA]

has this been posted yet. Not very nice reading but sums it up...

http://wingsoverscotland.com/

[redstevie007]

has this been posted yet. Not very nice reading but sums it up...

http://wingsoverscotland.com/

Gut-wrenching stuff.

[ShedTA]

Gut-wrenching stuff.

aye. I feel a bit ill reading it.

[teecee-]

Games up- we did not win because of too many " i'm allright jacks".

We won the battle for fair percentage of Labour voters but lost out as virtually all Tories and Liberals

stood firm to their beliefs.

Divided country, the better off in Edinburgh, East Dunbartonshire etc generally not in the least interested in anything but

themselves. Egalitarian country my arse.

Flower of Scotland? I will never sing that dirge again.

Rise up and be a nation again?- we are the joke of the world.

[thplinth]

Games up- we did not win because of too many " i'm allright jacks".

We won the battle for fair percentage of Labour voters but lost out as virtually all Tories and Liberals

stood firm to their beliefs.

Divided country, the better off in Edinburgh, East Dunbartonshire etc generally not in the least interested in anything but

themselves. Egalitarian country my arse.

Flower of Scotland? I will never sing that dirge again.

Rise up and be a nation again?- we are the joke of the world.

Agree with every word of that, (but don't forget Aberdeen, she is on that list big time as well.)

[thplinth]

Are people going to want get dressed up in kilts and stand singing about sending them homeward to think again after this? Some will but how many will not. The whole idea currently gives me the boak and I feel like a fraud. All that emphasis on national display and we then vote No to independence.

Laughing stock.

[ShedTA]

Are people going to want get dressed up in kilts and stand singing about sending them homeward to think again after this? Some will but how many will not. The whole idea currently gives me the boak and I feel like a fraud. All that emphasis on national display and we then vote No to independence.

Laughing stock.

I am done with that.

[the_fadiator]

I appreciate the answers from the No voters.

Obviously I'm going to disagree with their assertions that somehow Scotland has been strengthened rather than diminished by this result.

I simply feel that whereas last week we were arguing from a position of strength regarding new, devolved powers...we're now arguing from a position of complete weakness. I have no doubt that Cameron et al will try to get some new powers devolved, but I feel that the backlash from backbench MP's, their constituents, and the English media is going to be poisonous.

Make no bones about it, there's going to be a growing number south of the border who will be determined never again to see Scotland have this much 'power' in its own hands.....there'll be a drive to destroy Salmond, the SNP and completely neuter the voice of the 45% who wanted independence.

Rather than strengthen the Scottish parliament, I can forsee measures to weaken it....to make sure that what we've just had can never again happen.

I do believe that those who voted in good faith for No, believing that Scotland will be strengthened by substantial 'Devo-Max' powers, were naive in the extreme and are going to be bitterly disappointed. By that time though, it'll be too late.

I know what you're saying, but as long as there's a Scottish Parliament, there's the option of a party (or two) getting elected on a mandate for another referendum. 45% is too big to not be catered for, and it can grow too, especially in the face of the orchestrated 'project fear' campaign, future imminent cuts, and broken promises on further devolution.

What concerns me most is that the block grant will get reduced alongside any further powers. Any policies using new powers (in the unlikely event they materialise) generating more income for Scotland will go back to Westminster and not be redistributed to Scotland. I haven't seen any proposals that solve the constitutional problem of the Scottish Parliament short of abolishing it or full independence or maybe genuine devo max (the lot except defence & foreign affairs), which is also very problematic and probably unworkable.

[Bannannan]

Scotsman videos everyone interviewed with a foreign accent.Lap tops over the shoulder,Ray ban etc.All nawbaws of course.

[Rossy]

I know what you're saying, but as long as there's a Scottish Parliament, there's the option of a party (or two) getting elected on a mandate for another referendum. 45% is too big to not be catered for, and it can grow too, especially in the face of the orchestrated 'project fear' campaign, future imminent cuts, and broken promises on further devolution.

What concerns me most is that the block grant will get reduced alongside any further powers. Any policies using new powers (in the unlikely event they materialise) generating more income for Scotland will go back to Westminster and not be redistributed to Scotland. I haven't seen any proposals that solve the constitutional problem of the Scottish Parliament short of abolishing it or full independence or maybe genuine devo max (the lot except defence & foreign affairs), which is also very problematic and probably unworkable.

My worry is the next Scottish elections.

If Scottish Labour were to get in, they would work in collusion with Westminster to bring Holyrood back to the 'wee toon cooncil' parliament that it was under McConnell etc.

It's only under an SNP administration that the Scottish government has refused to be wee lapdogs, or an outpost of Westminster.

It's vital that the SNP re-group and win the next Scottish elections.

[mariokempes56]

Rossy, labour have zero chance.

[runningtings]

The Greens have a better chance than Labour.

[the_fadiator]

My worry is the next Scottish elections.

If Scottish Labour were to get in, they would work in collusion with Westminster to bring Holyrood back to the 'wee toon cooncil' parliament that it was under McConnell etc.

It's only under an SNP administration that the Scottish government has refused to be wee lapdogs, or an outpost of Westminster.

It's vital that the SNP re-group and win the next Scottish elections.

I actually wonder if in a perverse way, the big winner is the 'yes' parties. There's a feeling Scottish Labour will be decimated at the next election and the Lib Dems are unelectable, leaving the SNP and the Greens to prosper on the basis of picking up the 'yes' vote and the 'soft NOs' that feel they're best to fight Scotland's corner.

Where the SNP lose is that they'd have to deliver the budget within the constraints of Westminster austerity and any stitch up on further devolution that reduces the block grant. This puts them under massive pressure on prescriptions, concessionary fares, tuition fees, care for the elderly etc., made worse by the argument that independence resolves these funding constraints won't wash for many for a few years post-referendum. In an odd way SNP are best having a term or two as a strong opposition before doing another 2011?

[EddardStark]

I think the image if Scotland has improved enormously as a result of the vote. The door open for increased devolution of powers. This will give a lot of empowerment to the people. Politics has changed forever.

[AlfieMoon]

I don't see the point of more powers.

If we want more powers, it's because we're slung something right with the existing powers we've got. If that's the case - take all the feckin power when you have the chance. More powers is a cop-out and we'll only leave ourselves to get punished elsewhere.

Edited September 19, 2014 by AlfieMoon

[islayscot]

Good, let them.........just as soon as they put as much per head in

Yes but that's my point. Despite that fact we put more in we are now just part of that state. Any protection we had is now gone. We will be seen simple as part of the UK and these new powers we are to be granted will be used to raise our tax to pay for the things we have right now.