Dallas Shootings

[Pool Q]

13 hours ago, derekfaejapan said:

If an Orange Order march had just passed through Glasgow without any trouble, then suddenly after it finished trouble flared...Would you still have the same moral high ground?

What is the evidence that the guy who murdered the police had any connection with those who took part in the peaceful protest march? Those who took part in the March, whatever you or anyone else thinks about their cause, are not responsible for the accusations of the murderer. In the example you give, if there is no evidence that the two were connected I wouldn't suggest that the marchers were responsible for whatever hypothetical violence you have in mind. If that is the high moral ground,  from the comfort of my living room, fine by me.

[thplinth]

"Some of his antipathy for white police officers appeared to be shared by his younger sister Nicole.

On Wednesday, the day after the shooting of Alton Sterling by white police officers in Louisiana, she posted on Facebook: "White people have and will continue to kill us off. The only difference is they serve the system hiding behind that blue suit and get off easy murdering civilians.

"I for one think these cops need to get a taste of the life we now fear. Makes me so mad. When he decide we had enough and fight back."

She had no idea how prophetic those words would later sound, and deleted them after the massacre in Dallas. "I keep saying it's not true. My eyes hurt from crying," she later wrote. 

....

Fellow players described him as "chilled and cool" but said he would occasionally begin talking about "equality for blacks," especially after a high profile police shooting.

"We didn't really pay too much attention to him," Israel Cooper, 19, a fellow player told The Sunday Telegraph.

But that changed a week ago when he began ranting about white police. Johnson said he believed white police were "carrying out a "genocide" against black people. He told Mr Cooper: "White cops are slaying black people. This is getting out of hand."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/08/dallas-shooting-who-is-micah-johnson/

[Return of Yermaw]

14 hours ago, derekfaejapan said:

Yes, the whole 'Black Lives Matter' movement is pathetic, utterly pathetic.

you've sought a comparison with a movement instigated by equality to one solely driven by bigotry. marvellous. only in japan..........

11 hours ago, Ormond said:

On a cold and grey Chi......

 

 

(fear of finishing that part in here.)

thankfully someone based in the US can give us a wholly unique perspective on things. Where would we be without such insight............

[thplinth]

 

[Mox]

14 minutes ago, thplinth said:

 

HAHA. This must be a new low even for you.

[brant grebner]

The standard issue police firearm is a Glock pistol. A standard magazine hold 17 rounds. Police are trained to "subdue" their targets and to use as much force as necessary to protect themselves. 5 rounds may seem excessive, but it's less than a third of a clip.

There are a huge number of police killings in America every year and there is a disproportionate level of black men killed if it's viewed on a simple killings per capita basis, but the level of violent crime committed by black males in America is hugely disproportionate also.

The problem is hideously complex and goes to the heart of the American psyche. Black people are the oldest immigrant group in America and for the bulk of their time in America, they were crushed by the rest of America to generate the wealth that made it a superpower.

It took nearly a century after emancipation for black people to be allowed to drink from the same water fountains as white people, and even then they were still treated as "uppity".

As a race, Black people had no real sense of their culture. They were denied the head start that all other immigrant groups were afforded and the state was institutionally and inherently prejudiced against them. It took until the emergence of the Black Power movement in the 1970s for a real sense of black "self" to come about. And by 1984 it was wiped out as the CIA flooded black communities with cheap crack cocaine that fvcked their communities to this day.

A 14 year window for black people to pull up their socks before the US Government saw them both as a problem and an income stream to fund a clandestine war.

Drugs wiped out a generation of young black men by incarcerating them, losing them to addiction or killing them through gang related violence. A generation of young black single parent families raised by their mothers without any paternal guidance.

The sense of self that came about in post crack epidemic black America was hip hop. And hip hop evolved from party music to socially conscious hip hop and Afrocentrism and then in to the lowest common denominator G-rap. And just like every other form of black music born in America, the white kids loved it and bought it up in their droves. This cartoonish ignorant nightmarish offshoot of hip hop became the default and predominant form of music made by young black Americans. Art imitating life and life imitating art in a grotesque endless feedback loop. Gangsta culture is the default culture of young black America. It celebrates non-achievement in education, it celebrates crime and murder, it celebrates gang culture and the drug trade and murder. The more of a criminal you are, the more real you are.

A white people buy it up in their millions. They encourage this just like they encourage the drug trade perpetuated in black neighbourhoods by doing their rock-shopping in the ghetto.

I'd never thought I'd say this but Tipper Gore was right - don't let your kids listen to g-rap.

Now, not all black people are involved in the gangs and drugs, but it is the predominant form of black culture. Black Lives Matter don't have a problem with this. They celebrate it. The reason they celebrate it is because gang culture and g-rap are still the cornerstones of the black economy. They aren't going to attack the problems that hold back black people because those same problems are ultimately what puts food on the table for a great many black people. So Black Lives Matter instead focus their energies on protesting the killings of young black men by the police regardless of how justified or unjustified the killings are.

Given the black experience of America, it would be churlish to deny that there is still not an inherent racism in American society, but the Black Lives Matter group adopt a sticking plaster approach to their protests. They march up and down the country whenever a young armed black man gets shot by the cops. They venerate fallen gangstas who were taken out by the copes. They purposely ignore the huge level of black on black violence because it doesn't square with their narrative that nothing is wrong with the black community and it is all down to racist cops.

The issue is hugely divisive in America, and like all hugely divisive issues in America the debate is characterised by base level idiocy where people scream "libtard" and "racist" at each other. They make it all black and white when really it's all about grey area.

[Mee]

I was in the US a few weeks ago and caught a story on the news about gun violence in Chicago. I can't remember the exact figure but it was something like 2 people per day being killed and 20 odd being shot.

http://news.sky.com/story/chicago-sees-2000-gun-crime-victims-in-2016-10493561

 

But, on Tuesday, nearly 30 people were shot, bringing the weekend's toll to 66, with at least five fatalities.

Among those injured was a five-year-old girl and her eight-year-old cousin, who were both shot in the leg while playing with sparklers.

 

Astonishing levels of violence for a city with 2.8 millions people

 

[Ormond]

9 minutes ago, Mee said:

I was in the US a few weeks ago and caught a story on the news about gun violence in Chicago. I can't remember the exact figure but it was something like 2 people per day being killed and 20 odd being shot.

http://news.sky.com/story/chicago-sees-2000-gun-crime-victims-in-2016-10493561

 

But, on Tuesday, nearly 30 people were shot, bringing the weekend's toll to 66, with at least five fatalities.

Among those injured was a five-year-old girl and her eight-year-old cousin, who were both shot in the leg while playing with sparklers.

 

Astonishing levels of violence for a city with 2.8 millions people

 

Yep. Funny, as you never hear the Black Lives Matter bawbags attempting to tackle this.

[Rossy]

11 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Yep. Funny, as you never hear the Black Lives Matter bawbags attempting to tackle this.

Would the guy in the car have been executed like that if he was white ?

[Ormond]

Just now, Rossy said:

Would the guy in the car have been executed like that if he was white ?

Should he have been left alone just because he was black?

[Rossy]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Should he have been left alone just because he was black?

I don't think anyone should be murdered like that, regardless if you're black, white, yellow or whatever.

[Ormond]

Just now, Rossy said:

I don't think anyone should be murdered like that, regardless if you're black, white, yellow or whatever.

I agree with you. 

[thplinth]

2 hours ago, Mox said:

HAHA. This must be a new low even for you.

Christ can't you take a hint. Stop following me around this board post your shitearse wee comments you tedious whank.

[Mox]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Christ can't you take a hint. Stop following me around this board post your shitearse wee comments you tedious whank.

Don't flatter yersel mucker, someone needs to pick you up on the constant conspiracy sh!te you post and in this instance it's me. 

[thplinth]

9 minutes ago, Mox said:

Don't flatter yersel mucker, someone needs to pick you up on the constant conspiracy sh!te you post and in this instance it's me. 

Listen you boring boring ba$tard. I could post reams of similar wanky wee comments on the guff you post on here. Do you think you are some tamb judge of content on here? FFS you have to be one of the most conceited up yourself tits I have ever read. But well done because now I am all over your up yourself posts on here. Can't wait for the next one.

Edited July 10, 2016 by thplinth

[Mox]

Just now, thplinth said:

Listen you boring boring . I could post reams of similar wanky wee comments on the guff you post on here. Do you think you are some tamb judge of content on here? FFS you have to be one of the most conceited up yourself tits I have ever read. But well done because now I am all over your up yourself posts on here. Can't wait fit the next one.

haha, don't get so worked up about it ma man. The whole point of a message board is to debate with others regarding varying issues from football, to politics to the days news, so any posts of mine you want to critique in detail or question, thats fine with me brah. If i post sh!te then by all means take me up on it and i'll do the same with you and every other person on here and we'll get on just fine.

[daddybuc16]

3 hours ago, Mee said:

 

Among those injured was a five-year-old girl and her eight-year-old cousin, who were both shot in the leg while playing with sparklers.

 

 

 

That's harsh parenting, surepy you just take the sparklers off them, or make them wear gloves.

[phart]

58 minutes ago, Mox said:

Don't flatter yersel mucker, someone needs to pick you up on the constant conspiracy sh!te you post and in this instance it's me. 

You're not picking anyone up, you're essentially saying nothing but you disagree.

" HAHA. This must be a new low even for you "

was your "analysis" of the comment.

[Mox]

17 minutes ago, phart said:

You're not picking anyone up, you're essentially saying nothing but you disagree.

" HAHA. This must be a new low even for you "

was your "analysis" of the comment.

Thanks

[phart]

22 minutes ago, Mox said:

Thanks

Always happy to add my unsolicited opinion

[thplinth]

29 minutes ago, Mox said:

Thanks

puk puk... 

[thplinth]

Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings

Mr. Fryer, the youngest African-American to receive tenure at Harvard and the first to win a John Bates Clark medal, a prize given to the most promising American economist under 40, said anger after the deaths of Michael Brown, Freddie Gray and others drove him to study the issue. “You know, protesting is not my thing,” he said. “But data is my thing. So I decided that I was going to collect a bunch of data and try to understand what really is going on when it comes to racial differences in police use of force.”

Police Try to Lower Racial Bias, but Under Pressure, It Isn’t So Easy JULY 11, 2016
He and student researchers spent about 3,000 hours assembling detailed data from police reports in Houston; Austin, Tex.; Dallas; Los Angeles; Orlando, Fla.; Jacksonville, Fla.; and four other counties in Florida.

They examined 1,332 shootings between 2000 and 2015, coding police narratives to answer questions such as: How old was the suspect? How many police officers were at the scene? Were they mostly white? Was the officer at the scene for a robbery, violent activity, a traffic stop or something else? Was it nighttime? Did the officer shoot after being attacked or before a possible attack? One goal was to determine if police officers were quicker to fire at black suspects.

In shootings in these 10 cities involving officers, officers were more likely to fire their weapons without having first been attacked when the suspects were white. Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon. Both results undercut the idea of racial bias in police use of lethal force.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

ABSTRACT

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks
and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in
interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior
reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force – officerinvolved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual
factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model
in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for
discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

--------------------------

So once you strip away the lie that black people are more likely to be shot by the police what are you left with? 

 

[thplinth]

Another version of the lie

African Americans make up 13% of the population but 35% of the prison population... this must mean the justice system is racist against African Americans. (you hear similar arguments in the UK.)

Hmmm makes sense doesn't it. Except for one problem it implicitly assumes that blacks and whites commit crime at the same rate. If that were the case then yes you would expect the percentage of blacks in prison to mirror their percentage of the general population. 

But take one example for simplicity say whites were 90% of the population and blacks were 10% of the population but blacks had rates of crime 10 times higher than whites then what percentage shares would you expect to see in the prison populations? It would all other things being equal be about 50% white 50% black.

So what are the relative rates of crime whites versus blacks? If you don't know this you cannot draw any conclusions on the relative percentages in jail based on the relative percentages in the general population. How many of you convinced the cops are evil even know, honestly?

https://infogr.am/Black-34991937313

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide

Again if you strip away these lies what are we left with here?

Edited July 12, 2016 by thplinth

[EvilScotsman]

39 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Another version of the lie

African Americans make up 13% of the population but 35% of the prison population... this must mean the justice system is racist against African Americans. (you hear similar arguments in the UK.)

Hmmm makes sense doesn't it. Except for one problem it implicitly assumes that blacks and whites commit crime at the same rate. If that were the case then yes you would expect the percentage of blacks in prison to mirror their percentage of the general population. 

But take one example for simplicity say whites were 90% of the population and blacks were 10% of the population but blacks had rates of crime 10 times higher than whites then what percentage shares would you expect to see in the prison populations? It would all other things being equal be about 50% white 50% black.

So what are the relative rates of crime whites versus blacks? If you don't know this you cannot draw any conclusions on the relative percentages in jail based on the relative percentages in the general population. How many of you convinced the cops are evil even know, honestly?

https://infogr.am/Black-34991937313

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide

Again if you strip away these lies what are we left with here?

You need to compare similar crimes committed by blacks/hispanics and by whites, and look at the sentences imposed. Simply using the statistic that 52% of homicides are committed by blacks as some kind of justification for their having a higher prison population is facile.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

[EvilScotsman]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings

Mr. Fryer, the youngest African-American to receive tenure at Harvard and the first to win a John Bates Clark medal, a prize given to the most promising American economist under 40, said anger after the deaths of Michael Brown, Freddie Gray and others drove him to study the issue. “You know, protesting is not my thing,” he said. “But data is my thing. So I decided that I was going to collect a bunch of data and try to understand what really is going on when it comes to racial differences in police use of force.”

Police Try to Lower Racial Bias, but Under Pressure, It Isn’t So Easy JULY 11, 2016
He and student researchers spent about 3,000 hours assembling detailed data from police reports in Houston; Austin, Tex.; Dallas; Los Angeles; Orlando, Fla.; Jacksonville, Fla.; and four other counties in Florida.

They examined 1,332 shootings between 2000 and 2015, coding police narratives to answer questions such as: How old was the suspect? How many police officers were at the scene? Were they mostly white? Was the officer at the scene for a robbery, violent activity, a traffic stop or something else? Was it nighttime? Did the officer shoot after being attacked or before a possible attack? One goal was to determine if police officers were quicker to fire at black suspects.

In shootings in these 10 cities involving officers, officers were more likely to fire their weapons without having first been attacked when the suspects were white. Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon. Both results undercut the idea of racial bias in police use of lethal force.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

ABSTRACT

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks
and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in
interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior
reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force – officerinvolved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual
factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model
in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for
discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

--------------------------

So once you strip away the lie that black people are more likely to be shot by the police what are you left with? 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html?tid=a_inl