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Steady Decline


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Who is doing Mark Wotte's role now ?

Never understand the reasons for his resignation.

I presume there is still a requirement for the role ? And that to do it properly will take a team - rather than one guy.

His appointment was one thing that Craig Levein got totally correct.

I am sure that it is Brian McClair who is doing that job now.

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Some OTT reaction? We are not great but we ARE good enough to have qualified, two of the teams who may well be going to France next year could not beat us over two matches each. Sadly, other results did not go our way or as anyone predicted. We let ourselves down in Georgia for sure and a couple of other instances of poor defending proved costly (not the flukey pinball last second goal they score last night imo) but bad/biased officiating (Dortmund, last night) also played a part.

Not that I disagree with the points made about improvement needed at all levels, the youth not coming through, fragile mentality, being proud of narrow defeats against 'big' countries (blame the Scottish football media for that one, personally), the need to be more ruthless, more calling out of appaling and game-changing decisions against us...

Congrats to Ireland and Poland? Naw, congrats to game-raising ***** Georgia and especially Germany for contriving to miss sitters and drop points against everyone but us. We certainly need to be more strong-minded and ruthless to avoid these scenarios in future though.

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^ look at the history since Italia 90 onwards.

that is not bad luck....

Re : Brian McClair : to be fair it looks like we are moving in the right direction with youth development.

Though only time will tell if we can catch up with other nations
Poland / Belgium / Croatia / Denmark / Norway / Sweden or even Wales are all nations we should be competing with and able to beat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33915263

Edited by Haggis_trap
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Club football being wrecked for the benefit of rich clubs here and across Europe is a problem, same with nonsense like 'play-offs' but that doesn't stop other countries producing good footballers. Maybe our league is uniquely strange though.

We do have a media that batters into our psyche that Rangers and Celtic can't be challenged and that our national team will never be good enough/should be happy with 'brave' defeats in matches against so-called big teams.

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Tomorrow night's U21 game will be a good marker against the one played at Pittodrie in 2006 when a few of the main squad were playing. We lost 3-1 then, so let's see...

(Sorry can't link the BBC match report for some reason?)

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Too many Average Loan signings from either foreign players or the English leagues stifling Scottish youth development in the Domestic first teams. How about a restriction on these type of signings for all our clubs as the current financial position will not allow many of the clubs make any major player signings, allowing no advantage to any single club. I appreciate that financially, obviously the bigger of our domestic clubs are still in a position to make major monetry signings, but could this not be restricted in some way or anther as well.???

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Too many Average Loan signings from either foreign players or the English leagues stifling Scottish youth development in the Domestic first teams. How about a restriction on these type of signings for all our clubs as the current financial position will not allow many of the clubs make any major player signings, allowing no advantage to any single club. I appreciate that financially, obviously the bigger of our domestic clubs are still in a position to make major monetry signings, but could this not be restricted in some way or anther as well.???

agree that is decent idea in principle but has become very tricky with non-footballing EU labor laws. could limit non-eu players but not sure that would help much (As they already are, again in non-football means, to an extent with fairly strict permit criteria)

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Some OTT reaction? We are not great but we ARE good enough to have qualified, two of the teams who may well be going to France next year could not beat us over two matches each. Sadly, other results did not go our way or as anyone predicted. We let ourselves down in Georgia for sure and a couple of other instances of poor defending proved costly (not the flukey pinball last second goal they score last night imo) but bad/biased officiating (Dortmund, last night) also played a part.

Not that I disagree with the points made about improvement needed at all levels, the youth not coming through, fragile mentality, being proud of narrow defeats against 'big' countries (blame the Scottish football media for that one, personally), the need to be more ruthless, more calling out of appaling and game-changing decisions against us...

Congrats to Ireland and Poland? Naw, congrats to game-raising ***** Georgia and especially Germany for contriving to miss sitters and drop points against everyone but us. We certainly need to be more strong-minded and ruthless to avoid these scenarios in future though.

i think its the oppositte to OTT reaction to be honest, i see this discussion as more looking at longer term solutions to something that has been very long term in the making.

the other threads about sacking manager, chasing players into retirment, time to blood young guns early threads (and presumably hope that things instantly improve) are more OTT imho

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The SFA don't give a toss - only time they raise their heads is when the compliance officer pipes up to ban somebody - the game is rife with petty jealousies, clubs are run by crooks, shysters and incompetents an the top league has a format that drives the fans to bordeom.

Kick out the numpties at the top - they have done ferk all to arrest this decline.

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The SFA don't give a toss - only time they raise their heads is when the compliance officer pipes up to ban somebody - the game is rife with petty jealousies, clubs are run by crooks, shysters and incompetents an the top league has a format that drives the fans to bordeom.

Kick out the numpties at the top - they have done ferk all to arrest this decline.

These two would be the dream team for sorting the whole sorry mess out but sadly both are a little long in the tooth for such a project and have enjoyed such personal success sadly it just wouldn't be worth it to them.

Budge_3153114b.jpg

article-2176993-1428743A000005DC-691_634
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I won't be responsible for my actions if I hear any pundit giving the 'We're just a small country' argument. We're bigger than Wales and Norn Iron, the same size (iirc) as Slovakia, and Edinburgh has more people than Iceland.

Great thing about Wales and Norn Iron and (maybe) Ireland is that we'll perhaps see players from Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and ICT and Accies etc in the finals. None of those clubs' Scottish players have a chance of making it into the non-qualifying Scotland team...

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These two would be the dream team for sorting the whole sorry mess out but sadly both are a little long in the tooth for such a project and have enjoyed such personal success sadly it just wouldn't be worth it to them.

Budge_3153114b.jpg

article-2176993-1428743A000005DC-691_634

SAF was push at the job when he was young enough

- barely scraped thru the play offs again an Australia team back then that was virtually pub team by international standards

very little of note v denmark at wc, decent yes against west germans , but some dodgy choices in players whole campaign

uruguay was brutal to watch

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Our failures - a lot of heartache to relive

1974 WC finals- didnt have the mentality to score more than 2 against Zaire, unlucky against Brazil, and didnt have the strength for a must win game against Yugoslavia - should have won all 3 games. Bad luck or not good enough ?

Euro 76 Qualifying - Lose 2-1 at home to Spain and draw 1-1 away. Not strong enough or unlucky ?

1978 WC finals- didnt do enough research on Peru, Masson misses a penalty to make it 2-1 then capitulate. Didnt turn up for a must win game against Iran and/ or didnt have the strength for it. Played our best against Holland who stepped up a gear when they were in danger of going out and we didnt have the strength to finish it off. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1980 Euro Qualifiers - Lose home and away against Belgium - not good enough

1982 WC finals- Beat New Zealand comfortably but still didnt have the composure and conceded 2 goals. Played well against Brazil for 45 minutes then tired in the heat. Didnt have the strength for a must win game against Russia despite going 1 up. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1984 Euro Qualifiers - Lose away against Switzerland and Belgium. Draw with Belgium & Switzerland at home and lose away to East Germany. Not good enough

1986 WC finals- Not strong enough against Denmark & concede a poor goal. Never at any time looked like we were going to win. Play well against Germany but not strong enough to see it out after going 1 up. A must win game against Uruguay who play most of the game with 10 men. Not strong enough to score. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1990 WC finals- A must win game against Costa Rica.Pick the wrong forward line and the team doesnt turn up and lose 1-0. Play outstanding against Sweden but are left hanging on to a 2-1 lead at the death. Not strong enough to get a draw against a poor Brazil side. Only start to play when we go 1 down after a horrendous goalkeeping error but its too late. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1992 Euro finals- Drawn against Holland and Germany who outclass us. Win against the CIS. No bad luck. Just not good enough

1994 WC qualifying - Lose 3-1 in Switzerland. Must win games at home against Italy & Portugal. Draw them both. Hammered 5-0 in Portugal. No bad luck - just not good enough.

1996 Euro Finals- Scrape a fabulous draw against Holland although outclassed for 90 minutes, Missed penalty against England when on top to make it 1-1 and obtain at least a draw, not strong enough mentally to score more than 1 against Switzerland. Seaman lets the Dutch score. Bad luck or just not good enough ?

1998 WC finals- Ball hits off Tom Boyds face & costs us a draw against Brazil (albeit unwarranted). Must win games against Norway & Morocco. Not strong enough to win either. Bad luck or not good enough ?

2000 EC play off - Not strong enough at Hampden to beat England. Lose 2 shocking goals. Play the best game of my lifetime at Wembley but not strong enough to get a second goal. Bad luck or not good enough ?

2002 WC Qualification - Must win game against Belgium. 2 up against 10 men but not strong enough to hold out. Must win game against Croatia at Hampden - draw 0-0. Must win game away in Belgium - Lose 2-0 & dont get a shot on target. Bad luck or not good enough ?

2004 Euro Qualification - Must win game but draw 2-2 in the Faroes, Must win game but lose in Lithuania, Play offs - win at home against Holland and play like amateurs in the return leg losing 6 nil. No bad luck - just not good enough

2006 WC - Must win home games against Slovenia and Norway - only get 1 point from both. Must win game in Moldova ends in draw. 2 must win games against Belarus - draw away and lose at home. Unlucky or not good enough ?

2008 Euro qualifiers - Beat France home and away. Must win game against Georgia - lose 2-0. Must win game against Italy. Lose it at the death. Not good enough or unlucky ?

2010 WC qualifiers - Must win game in Macedonia. Lose. Must win home game against Norway. Draw - Must win away game against Norway. Lose 4-0. Must win game against Holland - Lose. Not good enough or unlucky ?

2012 Euro qualifiers - Must win game in Lithuania - draw. 10 men behind the ball in Prague - lose. Must win home game against the Czechs. Draw 2-2 after leading 2-1. Not strong enough or unlucky ?

2014 WC qualifiers - 2 must win home games against Serbia & Macedonia. Draw them both. Must win game against Wales in Cardiff. Lose 2-1 after leading 1-0. Not strong enough or unlucky ?

2016 Euro qualifiers. Must win games against Georgia and Poland. Not good enough or unlucky ?

.

Edited by Ally Bongo
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Depressing list, couldn't read it all.

The rise of the EPL has coincided with the diminution of us as an international force.

To me blocking off the route for so many of our players to the English top flight, and top teams in particular, has really harmed us...

Edited by Toepoke
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All very interesting reading here, if the SFA had half the knowledge you guys have Scotland would be in a far better state as a footballing nation.

I get frustrated certainly during World Cup qualifying when I see the likes of Australia getting through fairly mediocre opposition and getting into the finals.

I also cant understand when the likes of Uruguay and countries of that size seem to be able to produce superstars and we cant any longer.

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Our failures - a lot of heartache to relive

.

Can I twist this a little to focus on the 'heartache' of crashing out, rather than how good our team is (a thread in itself)

Only have time to do the last few

2008 Euro qualifiers - Beat France home and away. Must win game against Georgia - lose 2-0. Must win game against Italy. Lose it at the death.

- hopes raised to almost unprecedent levels (fuelled also by idea of knowking out a WC finalist).

- the crash was aggravated by referee decision, but end was swift

2010 WC qualifiers - Must win game in Macedonia. Lose. Must win home game against Norway. Draw - Must win away game against Norway. Lose 4-0. Must win game against Holland - Lose.

- a slower sense of decline, and a sense probably not good enough?

- going into the last game not expecting a result against holland but yet with the tease of possibility

2012 Euro qualifiers - Must win game in Lithuania - draw. 10 men behind the ball in Prague - lose. Must win home game against the Czechs. Draw 2-2 after leading 2-1.

- as above. going into the last game not expecting a result against spain or other results to go our way - but yet with the tease of possibility.

2014 WC qualifiers - 2 must win home games against Serbia & Macedonia. Draw them both. Must win game against Wales in Cardiff. Lose 2-1 after leading 1-0.

- this was one where for me anyway, it felt we'd thrown it away from the first game, and so was just a long slow demise.

- At least there were no expectations raised and dashed

2016 Euro qualifiers. Must win games against Georgia and Poland.

- hopes raised again - and dashed again - possibly the cruellest exit?

.

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Our failures - a lot of heartache to relive

1974 WC finals- didnt have the mentality to score more than 2 against Zaire, unlucky against Brazil, and didnt have the strength for a must win game against Yugoslavia - should have won all 3 games. Bad luck or not good enough ?

Euro 76 Qualifying - Lose 2-1 at home to Spain and draw 1-1 away. Not strong enough or unlucky ?

1978 WC finals- didnt do enough research on Peru, Masson misses a penalty to make it 2-1 then capitulate. Didnt turn up for a must win game against Iran and/ or didnt have the strength for it. Played our best against Holland who stepped up a gear when they were in danger of going out and we didnt have the strength to finish it off. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1980 Euro Qualifiers - Lose home and away against Belgium - not good enough

1982 WC finals- Beat New Zealand comfortably but still didnt have the composure and conceded 2 goals. Played well against Brazil for 45 minutes then tired in the heat. Didnt have the strength for a must win game against Russia despite going 1 up. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1984 Euro Qualifiers - Lose away against Switzerland and Belgium. Draw with Belgium & Switzerland at home and lose away to East Germany. Not good enough

1986 WC finals- Not strong enough against Denmark & concede a poor goal. Never at any time looked like we were going to win. Play well against Germany but not strong enough to see it out after going 1 up. A must win game against Uruguay who play most of the game with 10 men. Not strong enough to score. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1990 WC finals- A must win game against Costa Rica.Pick the wrong forward line and the team doesnt turn up and lose 1-0. Play outstanding against Sweden but are left hanging on to a 2-1 lead at the death. Not strong enough to get a draw against a poor Brazil side. Only start to play when we go 1 down after a horrendous goalkeeping error but its too late. Bad luck or not good enough ?

1992 Euro finals- Drawn against Holland and Germany who outclass us. Win against the CIS. No bad luck. Just not good enough

1994 WC qualifying - Lose 3-1 in Switzerland. Must win games at home against Italy & Portugal. Draw them both. Hammered 5-0 in Portugal. No bad luck - just not good enough.

1996 Euro Finals- Scrape a fabulous draw against Holland although outclassed for 90 minutes, Missed penalty against England when on top to make it 1-1 and obtain at least a draw, not strong enough mentally to score more than 1 against Switzerland. Seaman lets the Dutch score. Bad luck or just not good enough ?

1998 WC finals- Ball hits off Tom Boyds face & costs us a draw against Brazil (albeit unwarranted). Must win games against Norway & Morocco. Not strong enough to win either. Bad luck or not good enough ?

2000 EC play off - Not strong enough at Hampden to beat England. Lose 2 shocking goals. Play the best game of my lifetime at Wembley but not strong enough to get a second goal. Bad luck or not good enough ?

2002 WC Qualification - Must win game against Belgium. 2 up against 10 men but not strong enough to hold out. Must win game against Croatia at Hampden - draw 0-0. Must win game away in Belgium - Lose 2-0 & dont get a shot on target. Bad luck or not good enough ?

2004 Euro Qualification - Must win game but draw 2-2 in the Faroes, Must win game but lose in Lithuania, Play offs - win at home against Holland and play like amateurs in the return leg losing 6 nil. No bad luck - just not good enough

2006 WC - Must win home games against Slovenia and Norway - only get 1 point from both. Must win game in Moldova ends in draw. 2 must win games against Belarus - draw away and lose at home. Unlucky or not good enough ?

2008 Euro qualifiers - Beat France home and away. Must win game against Georgia - lose 2-0. Must win game against Italy. Lose it at the death. Not good enough or unlucky ?

2010 WC qualifiers - Must win game in Macedonia. Lose. Must win home game against Norway. Draw - Must win away game against Norway. Lose 4-0. Must win game against Holland - Lose. Not good enough or unlucky ?

2012 Euro qualifiers - Must win game in Lithuania - draw. 10 men behind the ball in Prague - lose. Must win home game against the Czechs. Draw 2-2 after leading 2-1. Not strong enough or unlucky ?

2014 WC qualifiers - 2 must win home games against Serbia & Macedonia. Draw them both. Must win game against Wales in Cardiff. Lose 2-1 after leading 1-0. Not strong enough or unlucky ?

2016 Euro qualifiers. Must win games against Georgia and Poland. Not good enough or unlucky ?

.

Not good enough.

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