nek Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Scotland Euro Qualifying Campaigns 92: Qualified 96: Qualified 2000: 2nd, Lost in playoffs 2004: 2nd, Lost in Playoffs 2008: 3rd in group 2012: 3rd in group 2016: 4th in group don't think you could really get a steadier decline than this. our failings are not a result of anything recent imho, but more as result of persevering with outdated playing mentality and terrible youth/grassroots management through the 90s (hopefully this has improved recently, which may bare fruit 2020 and beyond) no overnight fix to stem such a tide i fear........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 yip : the problems with Scottish football are exactly the same now as when we got beaten by Portugal 5-0 in 1993. it was obvious then..... it should be obvious now. 1) Youth / school football infrastructure that has lacked funding to develop the game for kids.Sadly kids don't play football on the streets any more...2) Outdated style of football. We don't value possession of the ball and lack basic skills. In the modern game this makes us easy to beat.has anyone got the WC qualifying records to add into that depressing table ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garywag Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Aye: 92: Qualified94: CRAP 96: Qualified98: Qualified 2000: 2nd, Lost in playoffs 2002: CRAP 2004: 2nd, Lost in Playoffs 2006: CRAP 2008: 3rd in group 2010: CRAP 2012: 3rd in group2014: CRAP 2016: 4th in group 2018: PROBABLY CRAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garywag Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 92: Qualified94: 4th in group 96: Qualified98: Qualified 2000: 2nd, Lost in playoffs 2002: 3rd in group 2004: 2nd, Lost in Playoffs 2006: 3rd in group 2008: 3rd in group 2010: 3rd in group 2012: 3rd in group2014: 4th in group 2016: 4th in group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Incidentally many point the decline of Scottish football beginning with the teachers strike of the mid 1980s. Kids stopped playing football regularly after school (...the teachers weren't getting paid to work evening or saturday mornings - so stopped). .... 10 years later our national team started going downhill.These problems are not new. I think with Mark Wotte we are starting to address them - this is the one thing Craig Levein got right whilst manager. However can't help but feel other nations like Poland / Iceland / Austria are 10 -> 20 years ahead of us now in copying the "dutch model" used by Ajax to develop youngsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris182 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 92: Qualified 94: 4th in group 96: Qualified 98: Qualified 2000: 2nd, Lost in playoffs 2002: 3rd in group 2004: 2nd, Lost in Playoffs 2006: 3rd in group 2008: 3rd in group 2010: 3rd in group 2012: 3rd in group 2014: 4th in group 2016: 4th in group Makes for terrible reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) 92: Qualified 94: 4th in group 96: Qualified 98: Qualified 2000: 2nd, Lost in playoffs 2002: 3rd in group 2004: 2nd, Lost in Playoffs 2006: 3rd in group 2008: 3rd in group 2010: 3rd in group 2012: 3rd in group 2014: 4th in group 2016: 4th in group Thanks - no doubt there is a long term declining trend there. Look at the other teams who lie 4th in the EURO 2016 qualifiers groups. Scotland, Bosnia, Belarus, Estonia, Finland, Montonegro, Bulgaria, Serbia (and also anomaly of Holland in transition) That is our level right now. Edited October 9, 2015 by Haggis_trap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanday Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 When we were qualifying in the 70s only 16 teams were in the world cup finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 When we were qualifying in the 70s only 16 teams were in the world cup finals. True although we only needed to win 3 games to qualify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) ^ fair points about 1970s.-> this table of "steady decline" should be the most read post on the board today.... the table doesn't lie - Scotlands national team are in terminal long term decline. the fundamental reasons should be blindingly obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than 5 minutes.we need to spend time and money on school & youth football to allow the next generation to reach true potential. indeed as a generally unhealthy nation we need to do much more to encourage people to play *any* sport regularly (and for life!) the benefits of sport should not just be measured by top level athletes but also in participation of the wider population. it could be argued we have a cultural / social issue to address as well as a football problem....Gordon Strachan, and the current crop of players (who all gave 110% last night), are not IMHO to blame. SFA take note. Edited October 9, 2015 by Haggis_trap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 True although we only needed to win 3 games to qualify And there were only about 22 countries in the world in those days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggycoo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It no coincidence that since the break-up of the Soviet/Eastern Bloc nations we have steadily declined. A sudden influx of similar or better teams than us has meant we have never progressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 ^ we used to beat teams like Russia and Yugoslavia in the 80s and 90s. more teams is a valid point - but not an excuse when 26 teams qualify for the European Finals. Sweden 1992 only had 8 teams.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nek Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) ^ we used to beat teams like Russia and Yugoslavia in the 80s and 90s. more teams is a valid point - but not an excuse when 26 teams qualify for the European Finals. Sweden 1992 only had 8 teams.... this proportionally, both the world cup and euros have expanded more than the number of competing nations in europe has, so by basic logic it should be easier to qualify if anything Edited October 9, 2015 by nek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The changing political geography of Europe has certainly not helped. We also used have the advantage of being a long established football nation while others were decades behind us. Unfortunately those decades have now elapsed. That said I totally agree our players should be doing better. We were doing a bit of head scratching last night trying to think of our last player who could have been considered anything near world class. Poor show when you see who similar sized or smaller countries can produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningtings Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 There is a lot of good stuff being done at youth level, but it will be a few years yet until we see the fruits of that at first team level. Starting on Sunday we need to clear the team out and bring in the next generation though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nek Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 would also throw in the that fact that we suffer badly that so many of our players play in england, which is, imho, a similar and equally pish brand of football, as their underachieving (relatively) international side is also testament to. partly geography to blame as its nearest big league so obvious landing spot, but we also produce that kind of 'physical' player early, if we did have more 10-15year old playing the way ajax/barca etc wanted they wouldn't hesitate to take them on, but we dont. the idea that guts and grit can win you anything more than occasional international game is long gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJim45 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Are we not the only country in the world were our teams play each the four times a season ? There's a degree of familiarity, talent is stifled, our two biggest clubs buy up the emerging talent, never to be heard of again. These issues have been well discussed over the years but nothing ever seems to happens. Scottish players don't look comfortable on the ball, it as though it's a hot potato at times. I'm still of the opinion the decline started when we went to the ten team league in the 1970's..... I remember playing in goals for my school team (primary) in full size goals, every ball that went over my head was a goal. It was demoralising, I was only 10, and that was 1980. It still goes on now. Talent just doesn't dry up, it's still there, it's just how you develop it. When's the last time you heard a Scottish player being regarding as 'gallus' ? McFadden on his day had touches of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggycoo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Apparently if we had a bigger league, playing each other twice then we'd have too many meaningless games. If in these meaningless games we had a chance to develop our younger talent thus improve Scotland internationally then...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJim45 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That's a point that's often raised, but taking that onboard, wouldn't that logic apply to every other league in the world ? Do we not have meaningless games as it is ? We do have a 'play off' now, but if you're 7-10th in the league with no chance of being relegated, are they not meaningless ? I often found it interesting when Billy McNeill and John Greig etc used to say, it was a chance to bring through younger players and give them the experience. They don't get that experience now, the league is structured for 'two teams' and it's a disaster if they even loose 'one' game, and they get dropped. We did have a strong league with a vast amount of talent, so where did it all start to go wrong ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Incidentally many point the decline of Scottish football beginning with the teachers strike of the mid 1980s. Kids stopped playing football regularly after school (...the teachers weren't getting paid to work evening or saturday mornings - so stopped). .... 10 years later our national team started going downhill. These problems are not new. I think with Mark Wotte we are starting to address them - this is the one thing Craig Levein got right whilst manager. However can't help but feel other nations like Poland / Iceland / Austria are 10 -> 20 years ahead of us now in copying the "dutch model" used by Ajax to develop youngsters. Mark Wotte quit because non of the idiots in the SFA would listen to him. this is not getting better. the SFA are doing SFA. any rays of hope come from some of the clubs who give youngsters a chance. the people running the game dont have a clue what to do about it, or any reasonable ideas to improve it. they are just happy with the current gravy train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nek Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 That's a point that's often raised, but taking that onboard, wouldn't that logic apply to every other league in the world ? Do we not have meaningless games as it is ? We do have a 'play off' now, but if you're 7-10th in the league with no chance of being relegated, are they not meaningless ? I often found it interesting when Billy McNeill and John Greig etc used to say, it was a chance to bring through younger players and give them the experience. They don't get that experience now, the league is structured for 'two teams' and it's a disaster if they even loose 'one' game, and they get dropped. We did have a strong league with a vast amount of talent, so where did it all start to go wrong ? tv dictates this yet again, only games anybody is really interested in paying decent money to cover is old firm, hence 4 of them = more dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Mark Wotte quit because non of the idiots in the SFA would listen to him. this is not getting better. the SFA are doing SFA. any rays of hope come from some of the clubs who give youngsters a chance. the people running the game dont have a clue what to do about it, or any reasonable ideas to improve it. they are just happy with the current gravy train. Who is doing Mark Wotte's role now ? Never understand the reasons for his resignation. I presume there is still a requirement for the role ? And that to do it properly will take a team - rather than one guy. His appointment was one thing that Craig Levein got totally correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJim45 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's like pissing against the wind with the SFA. Most people on here can see where the problem lies, but nothing gets done or improves. We've had Ernie Walker's Think Tank, The McLeish Report what's next ? These all appear to be smokescreens hiding a bigger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris182 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's like pissing against the wind with the SFA. Most people on here can see where the problem lies, but nothing gets done or improves. We've had Ernie Walker's Think Tank, The McLeish Report what's next ? These all appear to be smokescreens hiding a bigger problem. The gravy train rumbles on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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