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The Aftermath


kps022000

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I am sure they had seven members of the World Cup winning squad/team in the side though. That is seven more than we will probably ever have - that is the difference in the gulf in class so a 2-1 defeat over there is certainly not an occasion to claim we had a lot of things wrong with us. That is the point I am making here.

7 plus Reus, who likely would have played in the final if he was fit. So really we were missing 3 and so were they. Even.

A spirited 2-1 loss to any top seeded team, away from home, would be deemed a decent result. Nevermind against the champions of the world. I really don't understand the negativity on here. Especially since the ref gave them a helping hand, too.

I also believe we had 10 or 11 shots. We'd barely manage half of that against any team under Levein.

2nd is ours if we play that way the rest of the campaign

Edited by Tartan blood
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I now just hope Ireland or Poland won't take point against Germany because if they play like that, i'm sure thay won't win all their games.

It should have been a draw, but the performance is really promising, the spirit looks to be here. Euro qualifs start next month!

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Got to keep this "momentum" going. listening to sportsound last night about how many points we need to take in next games, "4", "5" etc. been hearing that for the past 10 years. look at england. they're clearly not an amazin as per the world cup. however they would be unrelenting in our group and probably stroll through barring two games againt germany. We've got to go out in the next 3 games and be as postive and unrelenting as were in the 2nd half.

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I disagree with the fact you seem to agree with Alt-Del who said he saw a lot that was wrong with our performance (or words to that effect). That is just nonsense because?:-

Why didn,t you quote him then instead of me,would have saved me the trouble in replying :-))

Please,because you dont agree with others opinions doesn,t make theres nonsense.

A. Germany are World Champions and we haven't reached a major tournament for a generation now.

Think everyones is aware of both those points but dont see the relevance your second point has regards our performance

B. There is a difference in quality in the German side compared to ours.

Which wasnt apparent for a large part of the second half

As an aside I`m sure theres a difference in quality in the Portugese side compared to the Albanians

C. We were away from home.

Where some of our better performances have come

D. We were missing three certain starters from our team.

See a previous poster

[qupte]We lost 2-1 despite those pertinent facts so I struggle to see how there was so much wrong with us. The only things that disappointed me was Whittaker's performance, the softness of the goals we conceded and the ref and end result. So all things considered I cannot see how on Earth there was so much wrong with us.

You dont see much wrong but highlight two.Poor defensively at both goals,didn,t think the first half performance was very good and we showed in the second half or most of it with a bit belief what we were capable of against the WC holders.I dont know about you but I left the ground a tad disappointed we didnt take something from the game much like Strachan and the players especially on the second half performance.

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Sorry Jimbo but you are way off the mark.

You are arguing the point we had a lot wrong with us following a narrow 2-1 defeat away to the world champions. Sorry but that is way off the mark.

You tried to pick holes in my argument well let's see. The only player I'd say had a not too good a game was Whittaker which is one player out of 14 we used on the night. Yes we conceded two soft goals defensively but let's not overlook the other great defensive blocks and saves we made so it leaves negatives in a vast minority again.

I do believe another stat is we were the first team since 2009 to restrict Germany to only two goals in a home competitive match. Yet you would still say we had a lot wrong with us?

Ask the Scotland fans and they will (mostly) agree that we went head-to-head with the world champions and at one stage were actually on top. We can take pride and a lot else from that fact so how does that equate to so much being wrong with us?

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I gave you a number of things that was wrong,virtually whole first half performance,poorly defending at both goals,chances created and only scoring from oneLooking at our second half performance would suggest there was a whole lot wrong with our first half

Throwing in stats doesn't,t enhance your argument

We ain,t going to agree

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I think what I said was that a. we played really well for twenty minutes in the second half (cause for optimism); b. some of our players are just not quite up to this level; c. there was a lot wrong with the performance overall (mainly in the first half, but not only). All of that is true. Doesn't mean we're terrible (we're not). Doesn't mean there isn't cause for optimism against teams less strong than Germany (see above)... but let's wait to see if we can turn the positives into points before getting too carried away.

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I think what I said was that a. we played really well for twenty minutes in the second half (cause for optimism); b. some of our players are just not quite up to this level; c. there was a lot wrong with the performance overall (mainly in the first half, but not only). All of that is true. Doesn't mean we're terrible (we're not). Doesn't mean there isn't cause for optimism against teams less strong than Germany (see above)... but let's wait to see if we can turn the positives into points before getting too carried away.

On your first point yes we played really well for a twenty minute spell in the second half (the whole team) so that includes players you feel are not up to it at this level against world champions - very odd comment that. On point B at what level are you talking of? If you are talking about man for man against world champions then I am sure they themselves would admit that was the case. However, if you are talking of not being up to it at international level that is tosh considering these same players had just taken us through a year of international football and six games unbeaten so that very much says they are certainly up to it at international level. As for point C well do go deeper please. All that I say was wrong was the soft goals we conceded. We conceded early but did not buckle against the world champions, the defence did their job restricting Germany to one goal per half with some great blocks and clearances so lets not forget that hence only two goals conceded. As for your final comment lets remember that very few teams in the world are at the level of Germany so to criticise us in anyway for not matching up to them is extremely harsh in fact a bit too OTT for me.

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First thing to say is that I don't have any issue with people wanting to defend the team, give certain players the benefit of the doubt, etc. That's good. Thing I'm not so keen on is our tendency - most of us - to get carried away even before the promising signs have turned into tangible results.

On the specifics: 1. you can play well (really well, actually) for twenty minutes and still have big deficiencies in your team: is that not obvious? 2. The 'level' is, clearly, higher end international level, in and amongst the teams that are going to get to finals. Do you really think all our players in Dortmund match up to that? Really? Looks more to me that our increasingly impressive manager has at least a chance of getting the best out of some fairly limited players; my point is that we've still to see if that's going to be enough against the middle rankers, that's all. 3. (This is where I really don't agree with you) There was plenty wrong with that performance, whether we're playing Germany or not. Strachan admitted we weren't set up right in the first half and that we let them dictate the game. We could easily have been well beaten before half-time. Then when we changed it and began to force them to react to what we were doing, got level and looked comfortable in the game... we gave them a pish goal. It was almost, though not quite, like the England game last year: when it was game on, we either didn't have the mentality or the basic class to get something from the game. That might come, I hope it does, but we sure ain't there yet.

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As I see it your basic premise is judging Scotland's players against the World Champions and basically coming to the conclusion that the players aren't up to it if they aren't matching them. There is a big difference between being on the same level of World Champions and us of course and there probably always will be. However, I am realistic enough to realise that a level we have found in recent times (unbeaten in our previous six matches) winning against quality teams such as Croatia, winning away in places like Macedonia where we have often struggled is a level certainly good enough to make us competitive at international level and the past year's results are the sort of form that will lead us to qualification.

You say there was plenty wrong with the performance which is your opinion. Now if you are saying that our shape was all wrong early on (here we made errors due to that set-up) and yet we still only lost 2-1 and couple that with key players we were missing that is why I am debating so fiercely with you. Germany are world champions and masters at winning home qualification matches and here, despite parts of our game letting us down (two soft goals conceded) we very nearly got a famous result with an under strength side so that hardly merits these levels of criticism.

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