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Politics At Scotland Games


andyg83

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You've never been asked that explicit question before, but as a voter you have the option to vote SNP at each and every election. The SNP's main purpose is independence for Scotland.

Like I say, a little obtuse not to recognise that a vote for SNP is a vote for independence.

And a little naive not to recognise that the SNP have never received a majority of the Scottish electorate voting for Westminster MPs, have only secured a majority in Holyrood in this term and then expect that electorate to back independence at the first time of asking.

It's not "No". It just "No for now".

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Imagine:

A collective of bigoted (defined ad infinitum) supporters, intolerant of others as a result of their political wish to remain part of a union/seek independance (delete as applicable). Their bigotted attitude results in insults, claims of ignorance and ultimately violence towards fellow countrymen. Sound familiar? - the Old Firm hatred for each other which many of the above posters, quite rightly in my opinion, denounce. No, this is now the attitude of many of these same 'Yes' voting Scotland fans against the people they would previously have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with several months ago, their cries that Religion and Politics should be kept out of sport now sound very hollow and they have lost all credibility!

Scotland has long suffered from the Old Firm bigotry, the last thing it needs now is bigotry amongst ourselves based on how individuals voted in the referendum. I am proud to support my country in all sports, hugely proud of our history and heritage and also voted No because I believe the case wasn't made for Independance. If that case is made in the future I may well vote Yes - who knows? For the record, I will also sing FoS loud and proud to show my support for the team. It is a song based on a 700 year old historical event which is proudly remembered by us all, not a declaration of independence or war against England and definitely not the preserve of Yes voters. 'We can still rise now and be a nation again' but only if we get over the bigotry!

Let's just leave the past behind and get back to doing what we do best, supporting Scotland.

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Imagine:

A collective of bigoted (defined ad infinitum) supporters, intolerant of others as a result of their political wish to remain part of a union/seek independence (delete as applicable). Their bigotted attitude results in insults, claims of ignorance and ultimately violence towards fellow countrymen. Sound familiar? - the Old Firm hatred for each other which many of the above posters, quite rightly in my opinion, denounce. No, this is now the attitude of many of these same 'Yes' voting Scotland fans against the people they would previously have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with several months ago, their cries that Religion and Politics should be kept out of sport now sound very hollow and they have lost all credibility!

Scotland has long suffered from the Old Firm bigotry, the last thing it needs now is bigotry amongst ourselves based on how individuals voted in the referendum. I am proud to support my country in all sports, hugely proud of our history and heritage and also voted No because I believe the case wasn't made for independence. If that case is made in the future I may well vote Yes - who knows? For the record, I will also sing FoS loud and proud to show my support for the team. It is a song based on a 700 year old historical event which is proudly remembered by us all, not a declaration of independence or war against England and definitely not the preserve of Yes voters. 'We can still rise now and be a nation again' but only if we get over the bigotry!

Let's just leave the past behind and get back to doing what we do best, supporting Scotland.

Imagine:

A collective of bigoted (defined ad infinitum) supporters, intolerant of others as a result of their political wish to remain part of a union/seek independence (delete as applicable). Their bigotted attitude results in insults, claims of ignorance and ultimately violence towards fellow countrymen. Sound familiar? - the Old Firm hatred for each other which many of the above posters, quite rightly in my opinion, denounce. No, this is now the attitude of many of these same 'Yes' voting Scotland fans against the people they would previously have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with several months ago, their cries that Religion and Politics should be kept out of sport now sound very hollow and they have lost all credibility!

Scotland has long suffered from the Old Firm bigotry, the last thing it needs now is bigotry amongst ourselves based on how individuals voted in the referendum. I am proud to support my country in all sports, hugely proud of our history and heritage and also voted No because I believe the case wasn't made for independence. If that case is made in the future I may well vote Yes - who knows? For the record, I will also sing FoS loud and proud to show my support for the team. It is a song based on a 700 year old historical event which is proudly remembered by us all, not a declaration of independence or war against England and definitely not the preserve of Yes voters. 'We can still rise now and be a nation again' but only if we get over the bigotry!

Let's just leave the past behind and get back to doing what we do best, supporting Scotland.

For we can still rise now and be a nation again once someone makes a different economical case for Independence than the one just given. Just no the now.

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Imagine:

A collective of bigoted (defined ad infinitum) supporters, intolerant of others as a result of their political wish to remain part of a union/seek independence (delete as applicable). Their bigotted attitude results in insults, claims of ignorance and ultimately violence towards fellow countrymen. Sound familiar? - the Old Firm hatred for each other which many of the above posters, quite rightly in my opinion, denounce. No, this is now the attitude of many of these same 'Yes' voting Scotland fans against the people they would previously have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with several months ago, their cries that Religion and Politics should be kept out of sport now sound very hollow and they have lost all credibility!

Scotland has long suffered from the Old Firm bigotry, the last thing it needs now is bigotry amongst ourselves based on how individuals voted in the referendum. I am proud to support my country in all sports, hugely proud of our history and heritage and also voted No because I believe the case wasn't made for independence. If that case is made in the future I may well vote Yes - who knows? For the record, I will also sing FoS loud and proud to show my support for the team. It is a song based on a 700 year old historical event which is proudly remembered by us all, not a declaration of independence or war against England and definitely not the preserve of Yes voters. 'We can still rise now and be a nation again' but only if we get over the bigotry!

Let's just leave the past behind and get back to doing what we do best, supporting Scotland.

What complete and utter manure.

You don't support your "country" by the way. You support a region of your country.

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Ooofft. Is it any wonder the 2014 Yes campaign was unsuccessful if that's how you engaged with the electorate?

Forgive me but I have spent 2 years explaining and talking and listening so now to be honest I don't really care what you think of my approach now I am not I the mood to discuss things with those who appear to have not understood the process.

You clearly don't get that self determination is not a party political issue. If you don't get that then it is pointless trying to discuss this.

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Forgive me but I have spent 2 years explaining and talking and listening so now to be honest I don't really care what you think of my approach now I am not I the mood to discuss things with those who appear to have not understood the process.

You clearly don't get that self determination is not a party political issue. If you don't get that then it is pointless trying to discuss this.

This Union has been on the go for over 300 years - you thought 2 years was enough time to dismantle it?

And self determination IS a party political issue - The SNP, The Greens and the SSP back it. The rest don't - significantly Labour.

If Labour, The Tories and the Lib Dems continue to alienate voters on both sides of the border that's an opportunity for the independence movement to exploit.

If Labour backed self determination that would be a game changer. Or if the erse fell out of the Labour vote in Scotland to the same extent as the Tories that would be highly significant.

If you're not willing to listen to the Scottish electorate and find out why the majority voted No that's your decision. However I believe that we are on a journey and that we need folk like you to get to our destination.

Stop blaming the electorate, start believing in them.

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You don't support your "country" by the way. You support a region of your country.

Wrong. He supports his country who when asked thought the best option for it was to remain part of a union with another 3 countries.

Most folk that voted No recognise Scotland as a country, you're not going to get them to turn pro-independence by telling them Scotland is a region not a country - they'll just think you're daft.

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I've been thinking this funnily enough, there are a huge number of positives to take from the referendum, our support is MASSIVE and EXTREMELY significant. The unionists can prattle and pretend that independence is finished, "defeated by a significant majority" etc etc but they up in their ivory tower should be shiteing themselves, 45%? we are less than 200,000 votes from independence now, that is MASSIVE. I did wonder if we were a little naive to think we could overturn the whole system in 2 years, now I think that maybe is right. We know where we are now and we know what we have to do to acheive what we want.

Labour is dead in Scotland now, I think they will be routed in the GE, they have utterly disgraced themselves. They would never back independence because the Scottish unionist shitebag MPs personally have too much to protect. Long gone is the "party of the people", it is now a right wing party led by self interested scumbags happy to sell out the future of their own nation and their own fellow countrymen and women and their future for money. That is what it boils down to. Self interest.

People are realising that, sadly too late for the referendum but people who stubbornly support a union because they are scared of change, allowed themselves to be scared by the lies and threats fed to them by their own government and the government led msm or are doing it to protect themselves even if they know it is to the detriment of others?really? believe in them? I'll believe in them when they prove they are worthy of "belief". THe ball is now firmly in the unionists court, THEY need to PROVE they are worthy, and most of us know they are not. Look at the likes of Reid, Murphy, Brown, Curran, Davidson etc... they are utter scumbags, no-one can dispute that now after their behaviour. Time they paid with their jobs. They have a duty to serve their constituents, not their own pockets.

Aye, No voters they don't need to be attacked at every opportunity they need convinced that they are wrong, this has happened, is happening and will continue to happen, that is the job for us to take forward but anyone can see that we are more and more obviously being shat on by westminster, how people can STILL sit there and think that voting No was the right thing to do as we see disgrace after disgrace, day after day, I really don't know.

Im not going to tell anyone they can't support Scotland, that's none of my business, but I don't have to respect them for what they are and what they have done. You earn respect, not automatically deserve it.

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This Union has been on the go for over 300 years - you thought 2 years was enough time to dismantle it?

And self determination IS a party political issue - The SNP, The Greens and the SSP back it. The rest don't - significantly Labour.

If Labour, The Tories and the Lib Dems continue to alienate voters on both sides of the border that's an opportunity for the independence movement to exploit.

If Labour backed self determination that would be a game changer. Or if the erse fell out of the Labour vote in Scotland to the same extent as the Tories that would be highly significant.

If you're not willing to listen to the Scottish electorate and find out why the majority voted No that's your decision. However I believe that we are on a journey and that we need folk like you to get to our destination.

Stop blaming the electorate, start believing in them.

Well that just goes to reinforce your ignorance on the subject it was turned into a party political issue-it isn't one.

And right now I will blame them. I have spoken to so many and have ample reasons to blame them. In the end of the day they were not forced to put a cross in the no box. I may come round but right now i am seeing the impact on people having to face the consequences of this decision snd it isn't pretty. So many have been badly let down by many I in truth believe don't actually care.

We are all responsible for the decisions we make this one is no different

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Wrong. He supports his country who when asked thought the best option for it was to remain part of a union with another 3 countries.

Most folk that voted No recognise Scotland as a country, you're not going to get them to turn pro-independence by telling them Scotland is a region not a country - they'll just think you're daft.

I may be daft but I'm correct. Edited by Parklife
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Wrong. He supports his country who when asked thought the best option for it was to remain part of a union with another 3 countries.

Most folk that voted No recognise Scotland as a country, you're not going to get them to turn pro-independence by telling them Scotland is a region not a country - they'll just think you're daft.

disagree. at the moment it is a region calling itself a country. when asked the question we chose to remain a region rather than become a country.

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I've been thinking this funnily enough, there are a huge number of positives to take from the referendum, our support is MASSIVE and EXTREMELY significant. The unionists can prattle and pretend that independence is finished, "defeated by a significant majority" etc etc but they up in their ivory tower should be shiteing themselves, 45%? we are less than 200,000 votes from independence now, that is MASSIVE. I did wonder if we were a little naive to think we could overturn the whole system in 2 years, now I think that maybe is right. We know where we are now and we know what we have to do to acheive what we want.

Labour is dead in Scotland now, I think they will be routed in the GE, they have utterly disgraced themselves. They would never back independence because the Scottish unionist shitebag MPs personally have too much to protect. Long gone is the "party of the people", it is now a right wing party led by self interested scumbags happy to sell out the future of their own nation and their own fellow countrymen and women and their future for money. That is what it boils down to. Self interest.

People are realising that, sadly too late for the referendum but people who stubbornly support a union because they are scared of change, allowed themselves to be scared by the lies and threats fed to them by their own government and the government led msm or are doing it to protect themselves even if they know it is to the detriment of others?really? believe in them? I'll believe in them when they prove they are worthy of "belief". THe ball is now firmly in the unionists court, THEY need to PROVE they are worthy, and most of us know they are not. Look at the likes of Reid, Murphy, Brown, Curran, Davidson etc... they are utter scumbags, no-one can dispute that now after their behaviour. Time they paid with their jobs. They have a duty to serve their constituents, not their own pockets.

Aye, No voters they don't need to be attacked at every opportunity they need convinced that they are wrong, this has happened, is happening and will continue to happen, that is the job for us to take forward but anyone can see that we are more and more obviously being shat on by westminster, how people can STILL sit there and think that voting No was the right thing to do as we see disgrace after disgrace, day after day, I really don't know.

Im not going to tell anyone they can't support Scotland, that's none of my business, but I don't have to respect them for what they are and what they have done. You earn respect, not automatically deserve it.

I actually agree with a lot of that.

However, being scared of change is a pretty common occurence - any change, even small ones can be scary for a lot of folk.

What the Yes campaign needed to do was convince folk that this change was good, it was progress and that voting No was the scary option.

The No campaign was pretty shabby, it had money but no soul and forced Labour to share a platform with the Tories. Primarily it never made a convincing case for the Union but as it turned out it didn't need to. It was the Yes' duty to prove beyond reasonable doubt to the majority of the electorate that this was a change for the better.

And don't blame the media for scaring the electorate either. You need the media to communicate with the electorate. If you only have one Sunday newspaper on your side and feel the BBC are consistently promoting the opposition then the opposition are doing something right that you're not.

200,000 votes isn't a lot considering the youth split, poverty rising and what the Yes campaign was up against.

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disagree. at the moment it is a region calling itself a country. when asked the question we chose to remain a region rather than become a country.

That wasn't the question though was it?

The question wasn't "should Scotland become a region?"

Put that on a ballot paper and you'd get a different answer.

Scotland's a country, it 's not an independent country.

And while I'm dealing with facts:

The BBC exists and broadcasts in Scotland.

Party politics exist

No carried the day because the Yes campaign failed to convince the majority of the electorate

The sooner the independence movement starts dealing with reality the sooner Scotland will win her independence.

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That wasn't the question though was it?

The question wasn't "should Scotland become a region?"

Put that on a ballot paper and you'd get a different answer.

Scotland's a country, it 's not an independent country.

And while I'm dealing with facts:

The BBC exists and broadcasts in Scotland.

Party politics exist

No carried the day because the Yes campaign failed to convince the majority of the electorate

The sooner the independence movement starts dealing with reality the sooner Scotland will win her independence.

i didnt say it has become a region. i said it remains a region. i dont get the bbc comment.

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The only people that call Scotland a country is people in Scotland. Scotland is not recognised as a country by any other nation in the world. We are a region. We might as well call ourselves a planet for all it matters. Just becasue we call ourselves a country it doesn't make us a country.

The UK is our country and Scotland is a region of that. Having devolution does not change that as many other countries have decentralised devolution.

Is Andalusia a country? Is Britanny a country? Are the Aland Islands a country. They have just as much if not more right to call themselves a country as we do. But just as us they are not recognised countries, they are a part of Spain, France and FInland.

Germany is made up of constituant states, they are also not countries, they are part of Germany.

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i didnt say it has become a region. i said it remains a region. i dont get the bbc comment.

Why didn't the question on the ballot paper not just say "Should Scotland become a country?"

The BBC comment is directed at folk that are still blaming the BBC for the outcome of the referendum. If we are to move forward we need the BBC onside - its not going anywhere. It's like blaming the ref or the dodgy pitch if you lose. The BBC is part of the landscape and you're not going to be able to stop the electorate from listening to it.

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Why didn't the question on the ballot paper not just say "Should Scotland become a country?"

The BBC comment is directed at folk that are still blaming the BBC for the outcome of the referendum. If we are to move forward we need the BBC onside - its not going anywhere. It's like blaming the ref or the dodgy pitch if you lose. The BBC is part of the landscape and you're not going to be able to stop the electorate from listening to it.

shamelessly stolen from another thread : http://www.newsnetsc...part-2#comments

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