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Toulon Tournament


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8 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

 

Need to remember that McCrorie (20) was injured (would have played in Wilson’s position today and been a lot more composed).

 

 

I'll get accused of saying this as he's a Killie player but when Wilson was on the park we were a totally different team.

Arse totally collapsed out our midfield when he went off injured. After that Gilmour was the only Scotland midfielder willing to put his foot on the ball. I'd have had Mcrorie in for Campbell had he been fit but Motherwell fans would probably say opposite!

Wilson does a lot of dirty work that goes unnoticed, it's the same when he plays for Killie and you only really notice how good he is when he's not there and yesterday was a class example of how noticeable our midfield was walked over when he was off.

 

8 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

 Gauld is 22

 

 

 

We really need to stop clinging onto the Gauld hype.

He may be a player for us in the future but until he starts playing regularly and actually getting near a squad, then we get put him in a category of player that we build our squad on. Until then he's another John Fleck.

 

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4 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

And Harry Cochrane could be just as good as Gilmour. 

From what I've seen of both players, Gilmour is on a different level to Cochrane technically. Cochrane is a very, very good player but Gilmour looks exceptional. His game awareness is beyond his years.

Both of them were in the same class at the Grange in Killie right enough. Fuck playing that school team!

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2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

 

I'll get accused of saying this as he's a Killie player but when Wilson was on the park we were a totally different team.

Arse totally collapsed out our midfield when he went off injured. After that Gilmour was the only Scotland midfielder willing to put his foot on the ball. I'd have had Mcrorie in for Campbell had he been fit but Motherwell fans would probably say opposite!

Wilson does a lot of dirty work that goes unnoticed, it's the same when he plays for Killie and you only really notice how good he is when he's not there and yesterday was a class example of how noticeable our midfield was walked over when he was off.

 

 

We really need to stop clinging onto the Gauld hype.

He may be a player for us in the future but until he starts playing regularly and actually getting near a squad, then we get put him in a category of player that we build our squad on. Until then he's another John Fleck.

 

I think in the 1st half that Campbell, Wilson and Gilmour worked pretty well together, though I'm not keen on Campbell playing so far up the pitch. In the second half, the completely ineffectual Burt came on and Campbell and Gilmour were swamped. I think the starting midfield was OK, and if McCrorie was available I'd have been thinking about him in at right back for Toshn...I mean Ralston.

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17 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I think in the 1st half that Campbell, Wilson and Gilmour worked pretty well together, though I'm not keen on Campbell playing so far up the pitch. In the second half, the completely ineffectual Burt came on and Campbell and Gilmour were swamped. I think the starting midfield was OK, and if McCrorie was available I'd have been thinking about him in at right back for Toshn...I mean Ralston.

Can't disagree with any of that, Burts main contribution Burt had was giving the ball away for their first goal.

Midfield 3 played well first half and let Gilmour get on the ball.

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44 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

From what I've seen of both players, Gilmour is on a different level to Cochrane technically. Cochrane is a very, very good player but Gilmour looks exceptional. His game awareness is beyond his years.

Both of them were in the same class at the Grange in Killie right enough. Fuck playing that school team!

Cochrane for me looks light years ahead of his team mates at Hearts. His first touch gets him out of trouble with ease. I’m confident it will be Gilmour and Cochrane in midfield for years to come, with likely McTominay or McRorie to add steel. That said, both of the 16 year olds could yet turn out to be giants.

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13 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Certainly with our nearest neighbour that is only going to get worse.

Pop of Scotland in 1901 was 4,500,000: England 30,000,000

Pop of Scotland in 1961 was 5,100,000: England 41,200,000

pop of Scotland 2016 is 5,400,000: England 55,300,000

Over next ten years the population of England is expected to grow at twice the rate of Scotland.

Iceland can beat England so size isn't everything but a bigger player pool must help all other factors being equal.

The population argument does not wash we with, it's a typical Scottish (we're too wee) excuse for failure imo.

Football is our national sport and therefore we should be aiming to compete at the very highest level. Croatia for example have a population of just over 4 million, they enter tournaments with an expectation not just to 'compete' but to challenge and progress to the latter stages.

The only difference between ourselves and England (for example) should be that at any given time they might have 10 quality forwards to pick from whereas as we would maybe have 2 or 3.

Granted, the population argument is more relevant when considering age brackets. However there it is no excuse for the senior team.

There is no doubt that is more difficult for a smaller nation to succeed but it is not impossible, New Zealand prove this in Rugby Union.

 

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56 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Cochrane for me looks light years ahead of his team mates at Hearts. His first touch gets him out of trouble with ease. I’m confident it will be Gilmour and Cochrane in midfield for years to come, with likely McTominay or McRorie to add steel. That said, both of the 16 year olds could yet turn out to be giants.

 

Aye, Cochrane is a very good player.

Billy's dad certainly isn't a giant, so don't think he will be haha

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16 minutes ago, Daz1982 said:

The population argument does not wash we with, it's a typical Scottish (we're too wee) excuse for failure imo.

Football is our national sport and therefore we should be aiming to compete at the very highest level. Croatia for example have a population of just over 4 million, they enter tournaments with an expectation not just to 'compete' but to challenge and progress to the latter stages.

The only difference between ourselves and England (for example) should be that at any given time they might have 10 quality forwards to pick from whereas as we would maybe have 2 or 3.

Granted, the population argument is more relevant when considering age brackets. However there it is no excuse for the senior team.

There is no doubt that is more difficult for a smaller nation to succeed but it is not impossible, New Zealand prove this in Rugby Union.

 

100% this

But I do think the online computing age and the fact a lot of parents are more hesitant to let their kids go out themselves and kick a baw about the parks doesn’t help.

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3 hours ago, Daz1982 said:

The population argument does not wash we with, it's a typical Scottish (we're too wee) excuse for failure imo.

Football is our national sport and therefore we should be aiming to compete at the very highest level. Croatia for example have a population of just over 4 million, they enter tournaments with an expectation not just to 'compete' but to challenge and progress to the latter stages.

The only difference between ourselves and England (for example) should be that at any given time they might have 10 quality forwards to pick from whereas as we would maybe have 2 or 3.

Granted, the population argument is more relevant when considering age brackets. However there it is no excuse for the senior team.

There is no doubt that is more difficult for a smaller nation to succeed but it is not impossible, New Zealand prove this in Rugby Union.

 

I think the point that everyone is making is that when it comes to age brackets such as the u21s it can be hard to compete with larger nations who have strength in depth. What's positive about this tournament is we have maybe 4 (Burke, Johnston, gilmour and Hornsby)players that are pretty certain to make it at a good level eg EPL or Celtic first team. If we can add that to what we have already then we could have decent team in the future that can make tournaments.

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A couple of thoughts here...

1) England seem to be much more joined-up when it comes to progressing their young players through the system; while we tend to throw in lads who have played for their first teams, Southgate and co. look at how they perform at their age level. Just because Campbell has made it to Motherwell's first team doesn't mean he is better than some English lads who are in the reserves at big clubs.

2) Rather than picking players from the Championship, England prefer to choose players who are rated at EPL clubs or are on loan. I mean the likes of Loftus-Cheek, Delph, Jones, Abrahams etc. -  many of whom do not start for their club on a regular basis. We could do worse than fast-track Gilmour for instance, never mind that he has not played at EPL level for Chelsea.

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13 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

From what I've seen of both players, Gilmour is on a different level to Cochrane technically. Cochrane is a very, very good player but Gilmour looks exceptional. His game awareness is beyond his years.

Both of them were in the same class at the Grange in Killie right enough. Fuck playing that school team!

:lol:

Quite a coincidence.

Both remind me of a young Derek Ferguson in that they're light years ahead of anyone else in their age group. Hopefully they'll both go on to have the career he should've had.

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23 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

From what I've seen of both players, Gilmour is on a different level to Cochrane technically. Cochrane is a very, very good player but Gilmour looks exceptional. His game awareness is beyond his years.

Both of them were in the same class at the Grange in Killie right enough. Fuck playing that school team!

his goal against Korea was absolute class for a 16 year old to have that awareness in a pressured situation and side foot it in to the corner.

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19 hours ago, daviebee said:

:lol:

Quite a coincidence.

Both remind me of a young Derek Ferguson in that they're light years ahead of anyone else in their age group. Hopefully they'll both go on to have the career he should've had.

Speaking of Derek Ferguson...It's early days but how good is his son, Lewis?  I remember watching Derek in a schoolboy international against England and he was outstanding.  

 

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📋 LINE UPS

Scotland (@ScottishFA) 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 : Doohan – Taylor ©, Kerr, Harvie, Hamilton – Watt, Wilson, Burt – St Clair, Wighton, Middleton

Turkey 🇹🇷 : Bayindir – Polat, Aksoy, Demiral ©, Dursun – Cankaya, Ozfesli, Kardes – Alici, Kanatsizkus, Eskihellac

#SCOTUR

Our front three will be worth watching.

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3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So we are resting gilmour, Johnston, Burke and hornby. Surely we should be playing our best team.

These competitions are about giving players experience. 3rd place doesn't really mean anything. 

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8 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

These competitions are about giving players experience. 3rd place doesn't really mean anything. 

Yeh I know but it's better to give players experience who are defo going to make the grade. Would rather we gave the guys who will be future senior players more experience. Plus I was wanting to watch our best players as well.

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8 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh I know but it's better to give players experience who are defo going to make the grade. Would rather we gave the guys who will be future senior players more experience. Plus I was wanting to watch our best players as well.

Very difficult to say at this age who will make the grade and who won't. Plenty of players have looked good at this age, earned loads of youth caps and then been overtaken by players that we didn't give experience to at a younger age. 

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11 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Very difficult to say at this age who will make the grade and who won't. Plenty of players have looked good at this age, earned loads of youth caps and then been overtaken by players that we didn't give experience to at a younger age. 

I would still rather play the guys who got us the goals that brought us to the semis.

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