Happy Royal Wedding Day Fellow Plebs

[Scotty CTA]

22 minutes ago, Kimba said:

There you go then.  You don't believe in faith alone Scotty...

Of course I do.

22 minutes ago, Kimba said:

...behaviour has nothing to do with salvation. 

It can.

24 minutes ago, Kimba said:

It's got to do with faith - believing.  

Or more accurately... believing in your heart.

28 minutes ago, Kimba said:

That's when the righteousness of Christ gets imputed to us - we don't have any of our own.   

Ah... so a person who professes Jesus, who continues to regularly get drunk, take drugs, and has sex outside of marriage still has the righteousness of Christ and the Holy Spirit in their heart?

(Or how about satan just wants you to think that they do?)

What relationship is that person having with God?

So, there's no such thing as false/empty conversion?

The answer is that that person was never saved to begin with.

38 minutes ago, Kimba said:

 Are you going to tell me you don't do any sins now?  

No, I'm a sinner.

39 minutes ago, Kimba said:

What about smoking for example ... if someone continues doing that...does that prove they're not saved?  

It wouldn't be proof, no.

41 minutes ago, Kimba said:

 Or is it only if they did the really, really bad sins?    You see, there is no scale where sin is involved.  Either Jesus Christ paid for ALL the sins, or he didn't since NO sin can enter heaven.

One half of one sin (any sin) is enough to separate an unsaved person from God for all eternity.

42 minutes ago, Kimba said:

A person is saved upon trusting the gospel of Grace.  

Yes, that's right, but the thing you're not getting is that just because a person thinks or says they are saved by faith doesn't mean that they are.

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Anyway, I feel that this has become self-serving for you.

You don't want to go to church, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself.

You don't want to get baptised, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself.

You don't want to give, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself, etc.

Any way you slice it, if you're not being obedient to God then you're being disobedient to God.

 

[Kimba]

25 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

Of course I do.

It can.

Or more accurately... believing in your heart.

Ah... so a person who professes Jesus, who continues to regularly get drunk, take drugs, and has sex outside of marriage still has the righteousness of Christ and the Holy Spirit in their heart?

(Or how about satan just wants you to think that they do?)

What relationship is that person having with God?

So, there's no such thing as false/empty conversion?

The answer is that that person was never saved to begin with.

No, I'm a sinner.

It wouldn't be proof, no.

One half of one sin (any sin) is enough to separate an unsaved person from God for all eternity.

Yes, that's right, but the thing you're not getting is that just because a person thinks or says they are saved by faith doesn't mean that they are.

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Anyway, I feel that this has become self-serving for you.

You don't want to go to church, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself.

You don't want to get baptised, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself.

You don't want to give, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself, etc.

Any way you slice it, if you're not being obedient to God then you're being disobedient to God.

 

Hmm, very contradictory.... but that's the Lordship Salvation heresy for you.  So your sins are paid for and forgiven but someone doing more sinning, theirs aren't forgiven, even if they truly believe the gospel.

So Scotty is worthy of salvation because he's doing "less sinning"  and being "more obedient" but other people doing more sinning and being more disobedient "were never saved at all" - i.e. your god only forgives the good doobies.   False, false, false, not to mention arrogance and self righteousness.

You had better go and look at people exposing the Lordship salvation Scotty.  You need to get out of that and stop trusting your works for salvation.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Kimba

[Kimba]

29 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

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Anyway, I feel that this has become self-serving for you.

You don't want to go to church, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself.

You don't want to get baptised, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself.

You don't want to give, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself, etc.

Any way you slice it, if you're not being obedient to God then you're being disobedient to God.

 

I don't go to church because there are no right division churches beside me.  I don't want to attend church for the sake of it, just so I can pretend I am holier than thou.  I want a church that teaches SOUND DOCTRINE.

I don't want to get baptized with water because it's not for this dispensation.

Really Scotty, can you not hear how arrogant you sound?    I will not be surprised if you start with using terms such as "license to sin", "greasy grace" or "easy believism".

By the way, that's the impression you're giving me, that you think I think I have a license to sin.  I don't and you have NO IDEA how my personal walk with God is going.

[Kimba]

44 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

 

You don't want to give, so you find a way of justifying that to yourself, etc.

No, tithing is not for us. Paul addressed giving in our dispensation in 2 Corinthians chapters 8, 9, and 10. Thus, God’s grace is not against giving; it is against tithing.

https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/category/tithing/must-i-tithe-10-of-my-income/

[Kimba]

The Tithing Curse (see link for whole article)

Placing someone under a required system of tithing and offering is tantamount to ignoring the redemption of Christ and placing the church back under a curse of the law.

Those living under liberty and grace cannot be placed under a curse (Gal 5:1). Mandatory tithing is not a practice for the church, the Body of Christ. Those who teach tithing are either ignorant of Paul’s instructions or are mishandling the word of truth (Titus 1:11).

Our generosity is an outgrowth of our thankfulness to God for what he has done on the cross. When pastors use the law to motivate giving they are denying the all sufficient power of God’s grace (2 Cor 5:14-15, 9:8).

http://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/law/the-tithing-curse

[Kimba]

It's actually you who's being disobedient and frustrating the grace of God Scotty.  Non right division will put you under the law and create all sorts of problems.

[DonnyTJS]

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

Again, you say that, but then you say works prove a person is saved. Probably because you take James for your doctrine, which is written to the twelve tribes (tribulation epistle) i.e Israel's program. That is not the doctrine for the body of Christ in the mystery program.

 

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

Scotty, again you're incorrectly taking doctrine for time past and ages to come which is for Israel.  Wrong Program.    We are the Body of Christ in the mystery program.  Paul is our apostle.  The ascended Lord Jesus Christ gave Paul the revelation of the Mystery. We are a new creature and are Ambassadors for Christ, not disciples. 

Paul: "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved ... For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Still waiting for you to explain how this fits into your concept of 'right division'...

[Kimba]

God’s Word clearly states that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9: [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lordship “salvation” (LS) is the unsupportable and unbiblical belief that the PERFORMANCE of good works, the PROMISE of good works, or the EVIDENCE of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.

LS can be overt (one must forsake all of his sins and follow Christ in obedience and discipleship in order to be saved) or VERY SUBTLE (one’s behavior willchange once he is saved, one must desire to get better in order to be saved, one must want to have a relationship with Jesus in order to be saved, or one must go beyond mere intellectual assent and actively respond –  do something (such as Rahab opening the door to spies, or Abraham offering Isaac on the altar) in response to God’s message in order to be saved).

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that any of these man-made conditions are necessary for one to receive eternal life. And yet, such things are taught by many churches, ministries, and pastors throughout professing Christendom.

We expose the people who promote LS, because they:

• Keep people lost ( 2 Corinthians 4:4);

 

• Are accursed (Galatians 1:9);

 

• Frustrate grace (Galatians 2:21);

 

• Bewitch believers, rendering the believers ineffective in their Christian lives (Galatians 5:4); and

 

• Are to be marked and avoided (Romans 16:17 and 16:18)

In addition to the above, LS causes people to focus on themselves, rather than on Christ, for assurance of salvation.

We cannot know whether or not someone influenced by LS is saved. In some cases, they may have never even heard the Gospel presented clearly, and may have never believed in Jesus as their Savior. In other cases, they may have believed in Jesus as their Savior, but have received bad teaching that causes them ongoing confusion. We cannot tell which is which. But, in any case, they need our prayers and they need a clear presentation of the gospel.

One wonders why so many thousands of seeking souls flock to the false message of LS.  Could it be a cultic draw by charismatic personalities who manipulate scripture, relish the attention, fame and (incidentally) the dollars cleverly conned from their followers?

Or, could it be that they walk into the nearest church, and they are sold a false LS gospel?  After all, people naturally want to trust authority figures.  In either case, the person who is fed false LS teaching is being steered away from the truth.

Although this list is by no means complete, following are some of the terms that are associated with Lordship salvation as being requirements for receiving eternal life:

“Repent of your sins”
“Turn from your sins”
“Be willing to turn from your sins”
“Put Christ on the throne of your life”
“Give your life to Christ”
“Commit to follow Christ”

Some proponents of Lordship salvation will allow that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, but then will insist that a saved person will show signs of being saved, such as sinning less and doing good works. If these “signs” are not present, they will insist, or at least heavily suspect, that a person has never believed in Christ as Savior.

This thought process can never lead to assurance of salvation, because it is always dependent on how one thinks he is DOING at any given point in time (we put DOING in all caps, because it is a work).  Other folks think that God knows whether or not they are TRYING (we put TRYING in all caps, because it is a work).  Trying will not help you attain eternal life.  Eternal life is a free gift, received when someone trusts in Christ alone for it.

[Kimba]

I will say this only once.  Salvation is NOT a performance based acceptance program.  It is a FREE GIFT with NO STRINGS.  None.  It is only Jesus Christ's performance that enables us to have this free gift when we believe the gospel.  None of our flesh works can ever contribute to salvation. 

The Lordship Salvation heresy is one of the most evil heresies hatched in hell - and it will send many there because they have trusted in their own performance instead of Jesus Christ's.

 

[Scotty CTA]

30 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Hmm, very contradictory.... but that's the Lordship Salvation heresy for you.  So your sins are paid for and forgiven but someone doing more sinning, theirs aren't forgiven, even if they truly believe the gospel.

No, not if they truly believe the Gospel.

31 minutes ago, Kimba said:

So Scotty is worthy of salvation because he's doing "less sinning"  and being "more obedient" but other people doing more sinning and being more disobedient "were never saved at all"

No, nothing like that.

I'm a sinner saved by grace. Not better than anyone (for the millionth time).

(How on earth do you extrapolate the things you do. )

Anyway, a person is either saved or unsaved (and there are people that think that they are saved, but aren't).

35 minutes ago, Kimba said:

You had better go and look at people exposing the Lordship salvation Scotty.  You need to get out of that and stop trusting your works for salvation.

Lordship Salvation isn't works based, though.

My concern is that people would fall short of salvation through faith in 'easy-believism'.

[Scotty CTA]

41 minutes ago, Kimba said:

I don't go to church because there are no right division churches beside me.  I don't want to attend church for the sake of it, just so I can pretend I am holier than thou.

But, I don't attend church for the sake of it, or think that I'm holier than thou.

43 minutes ago, Kimba said:

 I want a church that teaches SOUND DOCTRINE.

Mine does. 

43 minutes ago, Kimba said:

I don't want to get baptized with water because it's not for this dispensation.

Well, it was good enough for Jesus and He commands it, so...

44 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Really Scotty, can you not hear how arrogant you sound?   

No.

(Just doing my best.)

46 minutes ago, Kimba said:

I will not be surprised if you start with using terms such as "license to sin", "greasy grace" or "easy believism".

Well, since it's the opposite of Lordship Salvation, it had to come up.

48 minutes ago, Kimba said:

By the way, that's the impression you're giving me, that you think I think I have a license to sin.  

No one does.

49 minutes ago, Kimba said:

I don't and you have NO IDEA how my personal walk with God is going.

Glad that I could help kickstart it.

See you in heaven.

[DonnyTJS]

[Joke]

 

[Kimba]

Better listen to this Scotty - because this IS what you believe and you have proved it by your own words.

 

[Scotty CTA]

10 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Better listen to this Scotty - because this IS what you believe and you have proved it by your own words.

Instead of shoehorning me into a pigeon hole by telling me what I believe, why don't you just simply ask me what I believe?

(And where's your joy, btw?)

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

Really, can you not hear how arrogant you sound?   

 

[Scotty CTA]

46 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Better listen to this Scotty - because this IS what you believe and you have proved it by your own words.

No it's not. 

What's wrong with you?

I've stated hundreds of times that I don't believe in a works based salvation.

I believe in grace through faith.

My works won't add up to a hill of beans.

I choose to obey because obedience toward God is better than disobedience to God.

Ultimately I'll fall way short, but it won't go against my salvation.

So let me ask you this...

What is a person to do with themselves after they accept the Gospel?

[Kimba]

Did you watch the video?

You’re deceiving yourself and in denial because you said yourself here in black and white that if a person continues in sin (we’re not sure how much sin that is since you won’t say) that it’s unlikely that person is saved at all...... but all your sins are forgiven because you were more “obedient” .  That’s the height of hypocrisy and it IS what LS adherents believe.   The heart is deceitful and you are appeasing your religious flesh thinking you’re more saved than others because of something you’ve done - ie works.  that’s also a denial of the cross. 

I’ll pray you come out of this deception. 

 

 

 

[Kimba]

II Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Galatians 6:14. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

 

[Huddersfield]

7 hours ago, Eisegerwind said:

I'm really not wanting to be rude here and this will probably sound rude but again it does sound like a wishy washy primary RE lesson the 'the baby Jesus wants everbody to be nice to each other so we can all live a lovely cuddly world', it's just made up stuff.

Of course it's not rude - I've been married 32 years & have received extensive training on being told I talk crap. Just a reminder though that my post wasn't intended to be a justification or detailed analysis of my personal theology, just a response to the view expressed that how good a life you live is less important than a theological standpoint.

However...I've only been a primary teacher a couple of years, long after my 'Christian' journey moved through rampant Atheism & into the twilight zone of Agnosticism where it currently lives. I actually spent most of my working life in anything but 'twee' environments, doing anti-poverty and social inclusion work, running homeless centres, going into prisons, blah, blah.

My true influences lay in the time when I was trying to marry my political beliefs (which still largely sit where they ever did) with what I was seeing going on in churches, and what I was reading. I was heavily influenced by liberation theology in the 80s, which I saw as representing something close to my belief system...but nobody bar me really has any interest in this. Suffice to say, if we are quoting the Bible, there are two passages that I used to define my personal theology insofar as I continued to believe in it what I thought the point of it all was:

Isaiah 58:6 criticises people who put religious observance above good deeds

"Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight and to hit with a wicked fist. Fasting like yours this day will not make your voice to be heard on high. Is such the fast that I choose, a day for a person to humble himself? Is it to bow down his head like a reed, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Will you call this a fast, and a day acceptable to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?"

And in Matthew 25, Jesus reiterates the theme when he says that if you feed the hungry, let the oppressed go free, clothe the naked, etc., that by doing this for the least on earth, you do it for him.

So, it's nothing to do with cutey-pie baby Jesus & everything to do with the fact that as far as I'm concerned, faith without action is pure hot air, & endless quoting of scripture to win mindless arguments probably has Jesus turning in his grave.

[Kimba]

Paul is the apostle in the dispensation of grace.  He was given the revelation of the mystery - Romans through Philemon. It’s faith without works that saves.  It’s all about trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ. If you try and add works it annuls the gospe, of grace and makes it a false accursed gospel.  

Romans 4: 

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

 

[Kimba]

Titus 3:

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

The works is for AFTER the person is saved by faith alone.  Don’t make the mistake of mixing in works FOR salvation.

 

[Dave78]

11 hours ago, phart said:

 

 

Excellent. I've had the same thoughts when looking at ants. Although as a kid i used to burn them with my magnifying glass. I suppose that would be the equivalent of God smiting someone with a lightning bolt.

[bonzo]

First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

[Toepoke]

Anyway has the royal pregnancy been announced yet?...

 

[mariokempes56]

12 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Anyway has the royal pregnancy been announced yet?...

 

Yes, it was me.

[phart]

9 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

 

Paul: "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved ... For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Still waiting for you to explain how this fits into your concept of 'right division'...

Just in case you weren't aware, this whole thread is an example of what old school trolling used to be by Eisergerwin or however it's spelled.