Happy Royal Wedding Day Fellow Plebs

[DonnyTJS]

7 minutes ago, Kimba said:

It doesn't rightly divide and it makes you tithe..... that is a church I would be running away from as fast as my legs could carry me.

I've never seen you quoting 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, or Ephesians 1:13.  Just Romans 10, which is about Israel.    

No it's not, as shown below. You never did answer this ....

On 4/12/2018 at 1:13 PM, DonnyTJS said:

Well, you're certainly studiously avoiding an explanation of Romans 10:10-13.

Aye, it's really simple when you ignore all the elements that make it complicated.

For those who haven't been following closely, Kimba berated Scotty for suggesting that "outward expression of inner repentance" is a form of 'works' as opposed to 'faith' and therefore contrary to the economy of salvation in the new dispensation (the rules of which we get from Paul, who got them from the ascended Christ etc etc).

Unfortunately for Kimba, this same Paul in Romans 10:10 states that "with the mouth confession is made unto salvation". Her explanation for this is that Paul here is addressing perfidious 'Israel' and not the lovely Gentiles who get a free pass on the 'confessing' bit. However, immediately after verse 10, Paul makes it clear that he isn't restricting this to 'Israel' at all: "11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

So your idea of 'right division' is dividing Romans 10:10 from Romans 10:11, 12 & 13. That isn't 'right division'. That is simple dishonesty.

You say 'we are to study' - here's a bit of 'study' for you: verses 11, 12 and 13 of Romans 10 each begin with 'For'. In Paul's Greek, this was the conjunction 'gar' [γὰρ]. It can be translated in a number of ways ('for', 'since', 'this being the case', 'therefore'), all of which explicitly join that which has gone before to that which follows. You have quoted with approval a number of verses in this thread where it is used in precisely this way - just one example:

Paul's word in 2 Cor 4:18 was also 'gar'.

So, you cannot divide Paul's inclusion of both Gentile and Jew in "with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" despite your attempts to do so. You are not studying the primary source; you are gullibly being taken in by 'pastors' posting Youtube videos that denounce confession (presumably, because they equate it with Catholicism). What was it you were saying about 'perverting the Gospel'?

[TDYER63]

33 minutes ago, bonzo said:

Jeez never thought I would say this but can we get back tae the royal wedding 😱

Its easier just to adopt  Rolling Hills’ motto. No likey no lookey 😬

[Kimba]

1 hour ago, Scotty CTA said:

We're all sinners, but I can't imagine saving knowledge not manifesting itself in some way that would glorify God.

I would expect to see some evidence of Christianity (as opposed to no evidence of Christianity) from a person claiming to be a Christian.

(sorry can't seem to get rid of the wee headbanger icon)

Yes, we are ALL sinners in Adam requiring salvation, so how can you possibly state that God won't save someone who wants to be saved by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ??   

Again, its because you are trusting in your works Scotty.   

Not everyone will manifest the Chrstian life - the Holy Spirit can be quenched if they don't study and renew their minds.  They are STILL SAVED BY FAITH ALONE.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:6  For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the UNGODLY.

Romans 5:8

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 3:

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Please, please, please do not add works as proof of salvation to the Glorious gospel of GRACE.  Because NO-ONE deserves salvation - that's why it's Grace and no-one can boast.  It is all glory to God - HE the Lord Jesus Christ did the work necessary.

 

 

[Kimba]

Scotty - the fact Donny is defending you should be a red flag.

The pope curses those who believe in faith alone.

Canon 9: If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.1

more here:

http://christianresearchnetwork.org/topic/roman-catholicism/

 

[DonnyTJS]

I'm not defending Scotty (he neither needs it, nor would appreciate it). I'm pointing out that you've made a false claim, again, regarding Romans 10, and you've failed to answer it, again. I'll put that down as a white flag.

[Huddersfield]

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

 That's the proof not "look how good a life I am living".  

 

In which case, you will understand why I want nothing to do with any brand of "religion" or whatever you choose to call it. You seem to see this as an academic exercise. The Jesus I think probably lived was a challenger of the establishment (religious and secular), a man who told his followers to stop worrying about obscure texts and go and change the world, an advocate for the poor and dispossessed, a revolutionary in fact. I don't recall anything in the Bible telling you to argue nuances in preference to doing good.

[Eisegerwind]

3 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

In which case, you will understand why I want nothing to do with any brand of "religion" or whatever you choose to call it. You seem to see this as an academic exercise. The Jesus I think probably lived was a challenger of the establishment (religious and secular), a man who told his followers to stop worrying about obscure texts and go and change the world, an advocate for the poor and dispossessed, a revolutionary in fact. I don't recall anything in the Bible telling you to argue nuances in preference to doing good.

That's hardly any better than the wank that Scotty and Kimba are throwing at each other, you've just made up some stuff to suit yourself.

[phart]

 

[Huddersfield]

1 minute ago, Eisegerwind said:

That's hardly any better than the wank that Scotty and Kimba are throwing at each other, you've just made up some stuff to suit yourself.

Maybe so, but I spent decades making it up. 🙂

[Eisegerwind]

2 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

Maybe so, but I spent decades making it up. 🙂

Maybe that's why it's a bit more brief than some of this other stuff. I guess if you had 2000 years at it you could make up  something more convoluted.

[Huddersfield]

6 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said:

Maybe that's why it's a bit more brief than some of this other stuff. I guess if you had 2000 years at it you could make up  something more convoluted.

I dare say! I went to church for years, I’ve read the Bible cover to cover & chronologically, I have done post-grad work in teaching primary RE, so I’m not exactly making it up on the hoof.

But at the end of the day, all I’m really saying is that I think Jesus was telling his followers to change the world through doing good, not just talk about it. Which is where is disagreed with Kimba. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Huddersfield

[Eisegerwind]

1 minute ago, Huddersfield said:

I dare say! I went to church for years, I’ve read the Bible cover to cover & chronologically, I have done post-grad work in teaching primary RE, so I’m not exactly making it up in the hoof.

But at the end of the day, all I’m really saying is that I think Jesus was telling his followers to change the world through doing good, not just talk about it. Which is where is disagreed with Kimba. 

I'm really not wanting to be rude here and this will probably sound rude but again it does sound like a wishy washy primary RE lesson the 'the baby Jesus wants everbody to be nice to each other so we can all live a lovely cuddly world', it's just made up stuff.

[Kimba]

Ephesians 1:13 

13 In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Colossians 2:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

THERE is the PROOF in God's Word that He saves and seals someone the very MOMENT they TRUST in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

 

NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

If someone is saying a person is not good enough to be saved, they are false teachers and are boasting in their works.

[Scotty CTA]

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

You say that, just like the false teacher John MacArthur says (still listening to him?)

Yes, but I don't agree with him on everything.

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

But then you guys speak out both sides of your mouth by adding ....yes but's.  

No, I've never added anything to salvation.

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

 Maybe you need to inspect your own fruit Scotty instead of deciding who is saved and who isn't.  

I don't know if a specific person is saved or unsaved.

I'll leave that to God as He knows their heart and I don't.

[Scotty CTA]

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

It doesn't rightly divide and it makes you tithe..... that is a church I would be running away from as fast as my legs could carry me.  

No it doesn't. 

2 Corinthians 9:7 is printed on our weekly offering envelopes...

"Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." 

If a person wanted to, they could attend our church for a lifetime and not give a penny.

2 hours ago, Kimba said:

I've never seen you quoting 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, or Ephesians 1:13.  Just Romans 10, which is about Israel.    

I don't know if I have or not, but I'll readily admit that I haven't quoted all 31,102 verses of the Bible yet.

I know those verses and I believe them (if that helps),

[Eisegerwind]

4 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

No it doesn't. 

2 Corinthians 9:7 is printed on our weekly offering envelopes...

"Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." 

If a person wanted to, they could attend our church for a lifetime and not give a penny.

I don't know if I have or not, but I'll readily admit that I haven't quoted all 31,102 verses of the Bible yet.

I know those verses and I believe them (if that helps),

That's all very well and good I'm sure. What did you think about the dress, personally I thought it was a bit understated. I'm not a huge fan of the boat neck, for me  a sweethart neckline will always be the best choice for a wedding dress as long as it's not too revealing..... obviously.

[Scotty CTA]

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Yes, we are ALL sinners in Adam requiring salvation, so how can you possibly state that God won't save someone who wants to be saved by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ??   

Not only have I never said that, I have never believed that.

(I've used the example of the repentant thief on the cross many times on here.)

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Again, its because you are trusting in your works Scotty.  

Nope, I've only believed in grace through faith for my salvation.

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Please, please, please do not add works as proof of salvation to the Glorious gospel of GRACE. 

I don't add anything, but I'm pretty sure that I said something along the lines of genuine conversion should have some 'evidence' (indication) attached to it.

A person can't repent (change their mind) and remain the same.

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Because NO-ONE deserves salvation - that's why it's Grace and no-one can boast.  It is all glory to God - HE the Lord Jesus Christ did the work necessary.

Correct.

[Scotty CTA]

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Scotty - the fact Donny is defending you should be a red flag.

For who?

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

The pope curses those who believe in faith alone.

Well, he's not exactly a Bible-believing Christian, is he?

(I have the Holy Spirit in my heart. He can curse me all he wants.)

1 hour ago, Huddersfield said:

I don't recall anything in the Bible telling you to argue nuances in preference to doing good.

Luke 10:38-42 English Standard Version (ESV)

Martha and Mary

³⁸ Now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village. And a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. ³⁹ And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching. ⁴⁰ But Martha was distracted with much serving. And she went up to Him and said, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me.”  41. But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, 42. but one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her.”

[Scotty CTA]

1 hour ago, Huddersfield said:

But at the end of the day, all I’m really saying is that I think Jesus was telling His followers to change the world through doing good, not just talk about it.

Matthew 28:16-20 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Great Commission

¹⁶ Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. ¹⁷ And when they saw Him they worshiped Him, but some doubted.¹⁸ And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. ¹⁹ Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20. teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

[Scotty CTA]

49 minutes ago, Kimba said:

THERE is the PROOF in God's Word that He saves and seals someone the very MOMENT they TRUST in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Correct.

As stated earlier, it's called 'justification'.

50 minutes ago, Kimba said:

NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

Correct.

We bring nothing to the table.

51 minutes ago, Kimba said:

If someone is saying a person is not good enough to be saved, they are false teachers and are boasting in their works.

Anyone can be saved.

[Kimba]

1 hour ago, Scotty CTA said:

Yes, but I don't agree with him on everything.

No, I've never added anything to salvation.

I don't know if a specific person is saved or unsaved.

I'll leave that to God as He knows their heart and I don't.

I don't agree with him from the beginning - false gospel and false teachings.  Calvinism is completely heretical.

Again, you say that, but then you say works prove a person is saved. Probably because you take James for your doctrine, which is written to the twelve tribes (tribulation epistle) i.e Israel's program. That is not the doctrine for the body of Christ in the mystery program.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Kimba

[Kimba]

Scotty, again you're incorrectly taking doctrine for time past and ages to come which is for Israel.  Wrong Program.    We are the Body of Christ in the mystery program.  Paul is our apostle.  The ascended Lord Jesus Christ gave Paul the revelation of the Mystery. We are a new creature and are Ambassadors for Christ, not disciples. 

[Scotty CTA]

7 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Again, you say that, but then you say works prove a person is saved. 

No, I've never said or believed that.

If a person (like me) who used to regularly get drunk, take drugs, and have sex outside of marriage were to claim to be 'saved' even though they continued to regularly get drunk, take drugs, and have sex outside of marriage then, yes, I would question if they were genuinely saved.

I would find it extremely difficult to believe that that person was bound for heaven.

As far as I'm concerned they have just ticked a box (works) and continued to live like the devil.

[Toepoke]

And I thought this guy went on a bit...

[Kimba]

2 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

No, I've never said or believed that.

If a person (like me) who used to regularly get drunk, take drugs, and have sex outside of marriage were to claim to be 'saved' even though they continued to regularly get drunk, take drugs, and have sex outside of marriage then, yes, I would question if they were genuinely saved.

I would find it extremely difficult to believe that that person was bound for heaven.

As far as I'm concerned they have just ticked a box (works) and continued to live like the devil.

There you go then.  You don't believe in faith alone Scotty - behavior has nothing to do with salvation.  It's got to do with faith - believing.  That's when the righteousness of Christ gets imputed to us - we don't have any of our own.   

Are you going to tell me you don't do any sins now?   What about smoking for example ... if someone continues doing that...does that prove they're not saved?  Or is it only if they did the really, really bad sins?    You see, there is no scale where sin is involved.  Either Jesus Christ paid for ALL the sins, or he didn't since NO sin can enter heaven.

It might take a person a while to get out of doing some sins - it could take them years to start walking as who they HAVE been made in Christ. Each person is different in how their mind has been tampered with.   Someone does not suddenly change overnight.  You get your new inner man immediately upon belief of course, but the old man still tries to struggle.  That's why we're to reckon the old man dead and renew our minds with the Word.   Otherwise none of this reproof would have to be in the Word.

I know where you've gotten these teachings from though - the Lordship Salvation heresy....

A person is saved upon trusting the gospel of Grace.  END OF.