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Squad for Mexico and Peru


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1 minute ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Bollocks

When it comes to the only time of the year when you can spend some unbroken time with your friends and family, and an employer (who doesnt even pay you the going rate) asks you to take 10days, or whatever it is, out of that schedule to participate in something utterly pointless, for the benefit of no one other than the organisation, then I'm not surprised the employees have pretty much, en-masse told them to stick it up their arse.

We then compound the issue, by actively allowing certain players from certain teams, to rule themselves out prior to the squad being named...no wonder, others have been a bit peeved at that.

If it was about, squad building, team-morale, allowing McLeish a couple of games to understand more about the players available to him, we'd have invited Mexico and Peru (or umpteen other options) to us, hell, they are coming to Europe at some point this Summer anyway...but its not about that really, is it? Its about the SFA picking the wrong bloody options, for their own gain no doubt.

 

The national team has had an issue, for as long as I've been a football follower, of players pulling out of friendly matches...the way to combat that, most certainly isn't by trying to drag a selected few half way across the globe.

 

the going rate????? If thats what its about, we might as well shut down the national side, are you Gordon Strachan?

The way to combat is to change the attitude of our players from a young age, they have to believe that playing for Scotland is important and not a reason for taking time off. I'm not going to get into the whole spending time with friends and family debate, its been done to death. These players have the privilege of playing a sport we love and probably get more time with family than your average Joe so lets not pretend its otherwise.

Organising close to home friendlies to suit players is not the way to go at all. They have to work for the team not the other way round. 

 

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49 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

the going rate????? If thats what its about, we might as well shut down the national side, are you Gordon Strachan?

The way to combat is to change the attitude of our players from a young age, they have to believe that playing for Scotland is important and not a reason for taking time off. I'm not going to get into the whole spending time with friends and family debate, its been done to death. These players have the privilege of playing a sport we love and probably get more time with family than your average Joe so lets not pretend its otherwise.

Organising close to home friendlies to suit players is not the way to go at all. They have to work for the team not the other way round. 

 

I don't believe the players should be paid at all for representing their country, however I mentioned the 'going rate' simply as a way of highlighting that their employer in this instance (the SFA)pretty much takes the piss.

 

Yes, they do have to believe that playing for Scotland is important, but dragging them to Peru and Mexico for a kickabout isn't the way to do it. I don't know about you, but as an average Joe, I spend each and every weekend with my kids, almost every evening and 6 weeks worth of holidays per year...the average fitba player, will spend weekends playing or preparing for football and probably get their days off when their kids are at school.

 

I usually get het up, when players pull out of friendlies but on this occasion I lay the blame firmly at the door of Regan and whatever other arseholes colluded to come up with this set of friendlies.

 

As a slight aside to this, a couple of questions...a) do you think the manager would have picked these friendlies, and do you think he is happy being involved in them and b) what did the SFA seriously think would happen when the squad was announced and players from certain teams had been allowed a leave of absence?

 

 

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43 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

I see Danny Wilson, Sam Nicolson & Callum Mallace linked with late calls as they are already based over there.

I’m not averse to that, it’s an opportunity to assess if they’re good enough, even if these two games rule numerous players out of future squads it won’t have been a pointless exercise.

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26 minutes ago, Rab The Crab said:

I’m not averse to that, it’s an opportunity to assess if they’re good enough, even if these two games rule numerous players out of future squads it won’t have been a pointless exercise.

Danny Wilson could have been in the squad anyway so no issues with him.

Unusre on the other two but numbers are needed... 

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3 hours ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I don't believe the players should be paid at all for representing their country, however I mentioned the 'going rate' simply as a way of highlighting that their employer in this instance (the SFA)pretty much takes the piss.

 

Yes, they do have to believe that playing for Scotland is important, but dragging them to Peru and Mexico for a kickabout isn't the way to do it. I don't know about you, but as an average Joe, I spend each and every weekend with my kids, almost every evening and 6 weeks worth of holidays per year...the average fitba player, will spend weekends playing or preparing for football and probably get their days off when their kids are at school.

 

I usually get het up, when players pull out of friendlies but on this occasion I lay the blame firmly at the door of Regan and whatever other arseholes colluded to come up with this set of friendlies.

 

As a slight aside to this, a couple of questions...a) do you think the manager would have picked these friendlies, and do you think he is happy being involved in them and b) what did the SFA seriously think would happen when the squad was announced and players from certain teams had been allowed a leave of absence?

 

 

I spend my spare time with family and friends too but players have more time off than we do. They don't work 10-14 hour days like I do, they get home in the afternoon to spend time with their kids after school or never in Leigh Griffiths case 😂. They also have a much shorter career than us. They spend a saturday afternoon playing football, thats hardly a hardship. I have zero sympathy for them when it comes to this issue. Its a privilege to play this sport and and even bigger one to be paid very well for it.

No offence, but no matter how you dress this up I am not buying the spending time with friends and family argument, some people spend their lives in jobs where they have to be away from home for 6 months of the year or more so lets not put footballers in a very privileged position in the same category please.

a) I don't think McLiesh would have picked this friendly because I think he would pander to the players and certain coaches because its ingrained in the attitude of scottish football not to take the scottish national side seriously. 

b) The SFA don't think, thats the problem. They should have either arranged these friendlies with no leave of absence to any player or not arranged it all. As soon as Rodgers cam out in the press about these friendlies, the SFS shat it as they always do. 

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7 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I spend my spare time with family and friends too but players have more time off than we do. They don't work 10-14 hour days like I do, they get home in the afternoon to spend time with their kids after school or never in Leigh Griffiths case 😂. They also have a much shorter career than us. They spend a saturday afternoon playing football, thats hardly a hardship. I have zero sympathy for them when it comes to this issue. Its a privilege to play this sport and and even bigger one to be paid very well for it.

No offence, but no matter how you dress this up I am not buying the spending time with friends and family argument, some people spend their lives in jobs where they have to be away from home for 6 months of the year or more so lets not put footballers in a very privileged position in the same category please.

a) I don't think McLiesh would have picked this friendly because I think he would pander to the players and certain coaches because its ingrained in the attitude of scottish football not to take the scottish national side seriously. 

b) The SFA don't think, thats the problem. They should have either arranged these friendlies with no leave of absence to any player or not arranged it all. As soon as Rodgers cam out in the press about these friendlies, the SFS shat it as they always do. 

I work 50 hours a week, and I'm generally at home roughly the same time as my kids come in from school...i dont work weekends. Players have more downtime, but you'll find that its not at times when they can spend QT with their kids and other halves, they also don't all earn fortunes and many will have to find other jobs after their short footballing career has ended. Many footballers also spend great lengths of time away from their loved ones...my mate spent a season in Norway away from his family, because he couldnt get a contract here.

I don't feel sorry for football players in the slightest, I'd love a crack at what they do, but when it comes to the most meaningless set of friendlies since we played in Hong Kong, I can see why so many have opted out.

 

On your answers, McLeish wouldnt have taken the friendlies on, because they are absolutely moronic...and the second part, which ultimately I think is the main point, the leave of absence for a handful of very important players has given other players the impetus to say, 'fuck it, if hes not going, then neither am I', someone like, Ryan Fraser for example, having a look at the players not going and thinking, 'do I really want to drag my arse over to South America to have it handed back to me on a plate, while Lewis Stevenson, Chris Cadden and Stephen O'Donnell run about like the run-of-the-mill haddies that they are?

 

I just think the full thing is a shambles, and I'm not surprised so many players don't want to be involved with it

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8 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

There was a very good discussion on sportsound with Michael oneil. He was discussing players from other nations who are at 50 caps in their mid 20s but for some reason Scotland's players aren't there.

I'll see if I can find it on BBC but it backed up the lack of commitment from players argument.

I'm far from his biggest fan but can't argue with his commitment over the last couple of years.

 

agree with this except it's.not all players are committed despite playing long hard season and European matches looming in less than 6 weeks.

Other countries see friendlies as a chance to prepare and build towards qualification for a major tournament. Some of ours see it as rest time. That's the difference between us and those who want to qualify.

By allowing players to skip this, McLeish may end up creating divisions, it's certainmy doesn't create unity which is what we need more than anything.

By getting all to go and getting a result, he would have achieved belief

Which is basically what happened to n Ireland

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1 hour ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I work 50 hours a week, and I'm generally at home roughly the same time as my kids come in from school...i dont work weekends. Players have more downtime, but you'll find that its not at times when they can spend QT with their kids and other halves, they also don't all earn fortunes and many will have to find other jobs after their short footballing career has ended. Many footballers also spend great lengths of time away from their loved ones...my mate spent a season in Norway away from his family, because he couldnt get a contract here.

I don't feel sorry for football players in the slightest, I'd love a crack at what they do, but when it comes to the most meaningless set of friendlies since we played in Hong Kong, I can see why so many have opted out.

 

On your answers, McLeish wouldnt have taken the friendlies on, because they are absolutely moronic...and the second part, which ultimately I think is the main point, the leave of absence for a handful of very important players has given other players the impetus to say, 'fuck it, if hes not going, then neither am I', someone like, Ryan Fraser for example, having a look at the players not going and thinking, 'do I really want to drag my arse over to South America to have it handed back to me on a plate, while Lewis Stevenson, Chris Cadden and Stephen O'Donnell run about like the run-of-the-mill haddies that they are?

 

I just think the full thing is a shambles, and I'm not surprised so many players don't want to be involved with it

McLeish learnt a lot in the first two friendlies and he needed to learn a hell of a lot more in these two

Before our one game with Belgium and then straight into the nation's league

They are our chance to qualify as we've proven the conventional route

The players have stuffed that chance to come together and progress ahead of these huge games for us

Now instead of progressing, the management, fans are questioning their commitment at all

Edited by Bino's
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22 minutes ago, Bino's said:

McLeish learnt a lot in the first two friendlies and he needed to learn a hell of a lot more in these two

He’s learnt a lot with these two friendlies too. He’s learnt about the commitment of certain individuals in our pool

The sad thing is if/when these two results don’t go our way and there’s every chance of a humiliation in store it’ll be Alex McLeish and his back room staff that get the brunt of things from the narrow minded bawbags within the TA, when in actual fact he’s only pissing with cock he’s been given

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28 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

He’s learnt a lot with these two friendlies too. He’s learnt about the commitment of certain individuals in our pool

The sad thing is if/when these two results don’t go our way and there’s every chance of a humiliation in store it’ll be Alex McLeish and his back room staff that get the brunt of things from the narrow minded bawbags within the TA, when in actual fact he’s only pissing with cock he’s been given

The cynic in me thinks perhaps that's part of why he left out so many 1st choices from the initial squad. Go there with an 'experimental side' so that when we get gubbed he can try and avoid accountability.

Let's not overplay the withdrawals.. Armstrong and Fraser are the only ones that were likely to play any significant part. Maybe Douglas, but since he's the 3rd choice, i'd put him in the "it's experimental" bracket.

Did any of us actually want Ritchie, Hanley, Martin or Souttar to play? None of them are up to par and would probably have just been sitting on the bench anyway.

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8 hours ago, noctonjock said:

The thing is we used to play 3 home international games in a week at the end of every season with not many call offs other than maybe Liverpool's European cup players . These players just don' have the same commitment . I know it's in South America  and those games were at home but I still think some of these players need to question themselves 

We also used to play four games in a two year qualifying campaign and hardly any other friendlies.  

In 1978, Liverpool played 6 games to get to the final of the European Cup Final, to get to the final this year, they had to play 14.

There's far too much football these days and it's just getting worse each year. 

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

We also used to play four games in a two year qualifying campaign and hardly any other friendlies.  

In 1978, Liverpool played 6 games to get to the final of the European Cup Final, to get to the final this year, they had to play 14.

There's far too much football these days and it's just getting worse each year. 

 

This is the truth....  scrap the champions league and bring back the European cup.  Much more exciting... topleague of 18 teams and play twice a season... bring back the home internationals...  football was so much better in the 70s.  Money has ruined it.

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The game was arranged as a money making exercise - nothing to do with progression of the team. The SFA should have learned their lesson after Yokohama - a game arranged in October FFS  ( again for money) which sparked massive call offs.

What other FA would sanction such a trip without a manager? I suspect this is why Smith was overlooked as I am sure if asked in his interview he would have said to scrap the trip whereas Eck was desperate to get off the dole. I remember Levein vetoed a close season trip to Australia and rightly so.

I am heading over myself - call me a hypocrite - but with no expectation whatsoever for these matches.

I too would normally call for any withdrawals not  to be selected in future ..... but not this time. This is the one time of year players should be able to spend time with their families.

And I suspect those kilted/feathered warriors who claim they would crawl over broken glass naked to play for Scotland would be the first to pull out if in the players position.

We have a manager who has no concept of the word loyalty so he is hardly in a position to complain and is clearly no example to the players.

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3 hours ago, Malcolm said:

 

This is the truth....  scrap the champions league and bring back the European cup.  Much more exciting... topleague of 18 teams and play twice a season... bring back the home internationals...  football was so much better in the 70s.  Money has ruined it.

UEFA cup and Cup Winners Cup too

Fairs Cup? That’s maybe going a bit overkill 

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12 hours ago, jackhayes17 said:

McLaughlin

Hendry Mulgrew McKenna

Paterson McGinn McTominay McGeouch Shinnie

Phillips

Russell

Would be my first choice XI out of that squad.

Plenty of pace and energy which is required.

Only positive out of all the call offs is that the same back 3 from Budapest who were excellent will be playing together again you'd assume.

If that team starts one of the games it could possibly be one of the weakest line-ups to ever represent Scotland - on a par with anything fielded during the early days of Berti.  And yet, given the players we have left,  it's a decent shout for the starting XI.  There isn't much I'd change there, except possibly bringing McBurnie in for Russell - but let's face it, it'll be a sair fecht for whoever plays up front in these matches.

These fixtures look more and more a waste of time as each day passes.   We'd struggle against Mexico and Peru even with a full-strength side, so  I can't see what sending out a side bordering on a C team will achieve, either in terms of fact-finding or morale-building (considering half of the remaining squad are unlikely to feature again once the players they have replaced return for the qualifiers). 

A game in Europe against opposition we don't normally face - like the game we played in London against Nigeria a couple of years ago - makes more sense than travelling to the other side of the world to be cannon fodder in two meaningless matches.  It would be better for everyone involved: the players, tiring after a long season; the coaching staff, trying to prepare for the forthcoming qualifiers; and, of course, the paying spectators too.

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2 minutes ago, scotlad said:

If that team starts one of the games it could possibly be one of the weakest line-ups to ever represent Scotland - on a par with anything fielded during the early days of Berti.  And yet, given the players we have left,  it's a decent shout for the starting XI.  There isn't much I'd change there, except possibly bringing McBurnie in for Russell - but let's face it, it'll be a sair fecht for whoever plays up front in these matches.

These fixtures look more and more a waste of time as each day passes.   We'd struggle against Mexico and Peru even with a full-strength side, so  I can't see what sending out a side bordering on a C team will achieve, either in terms of fact-finding or morale-building (considering half of the remaining squad are unlikely to feature again once the players they have replaced return for the qualifiers). 

A game in Europe against opposition we don't normally face - like the game we played in London against Nigeria a couple of years ago - makes more sense than travelling to the other side of the world to be cannon fodder in two meaningless matches.  It would be better for everyone involved: the players, tiring after a long season; the coaching staff, trying to prepare for the forthcoming qualifiers; and, of course, the paying spectators too.

 

Totally.  Which arse thought this was a good idea in the first place?  It’s not like we are in the World Cup and need to face opposition from different continents!

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6 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

Aye! Was the Fairs cup and Uefa cup not the same thing!?   And make them all knock out over two legs!

Maybe, might have been. I know Clyde I think it was got rejected from entering one year because of Rangers. They tried to claim Rutherglen but UEFA said they were from Glasgow 

Edited by DoonTheSlope
Might just be an urban myth though
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