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HE IS RISEN FROM THE DEAD! 

1-1-1-1-He-is-Risen.jpg

 

:sing: Man of sorrows

Lamb of God

By His own betrayed

The sin of man and wrath of God

Has been on Jesus laid

 

Silent as He stood accused

Beaten, mocked, and scorned

Bowing to the Father's will

He took a crown of thorns

 

Chorus

Oh that rugged cross my salvation

Where Your love poured out over me

Now my soul cries out hallelujah

Praise and honour unto Thee

 

Sent of heaven

God's own Son

To purchase and redeem

And reconcile the very ones

Who nailed Him to that tree

 

Now my debt is paid

It is paid in full

By the precious blood

That my Jesus spilled

Now the curse of sin

Has no hold on me

Whom the Son sets free

Oh is free indeed

 

See the stone is rolled away

Behold the empty tomb

Hallelujah God be praised

He's risen from the grave! :)

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The Precautions At The Tomb: The Stone, The Roman Seal, And The Guard

istock-173907910-960x526.jpg

- the large stone was usually anywhere from 1,500 lbs. to 2 tons in weight

- the seal was sign of authentication that the tomb was occupied and the power and authority of Rome stood behind the seal. Anyone found breaking the Roman seal would suffer the punishment of an unpleasant death.

- the Roman guard was a sixteen-man unit that was governed by very strict rules. Each member was responsible for six square feet of space. The guard members could not sit down or lean against anything while they were on duty. If a guard member fell asleep, he was beaten and burned with his own clothes. But he was not the only one executed, the entire sixteen-man guard unit was executed if only one of the members fell asleep while on duty.

Although the religious leaders felt satisfied when they handed Jesus over to Pontius Pilate to be crucified they remembered Jesus' words that He would come back from the dead. Consequently they asked Pilate to make the tomb as secure as possible. This consisted of a guard, a large stone rolled at the entrance of the tomb, and the Roman seal. However these precautions were worthless when it came to stopping the tomb from being empty on Easter Sunday. The disciples were not able to steal the body - Jesus came back from the dead!

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11 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

The Precautions At The Tomb: The Stone, The Roman Seal, And The Guard

istock-173907910-960x526.jpg

- the large stone was usually anywhere from 1,500 lbs. to 2 tons in weight

- the seal was sign of authentication that the tomb was occupied and the power and authority of Rome stood behind the seal. Anyone found breaking the Roman seal would suffer the punishment of an unpleasant death.

- the Roman guard was a sixteen-man unit that was governed by very strict rules. Each member was responsible for six square feet of space. The guard members could not sit down or lean against anything while they were on duty. If a guard member fell asleep, he was beaten and burned with his own clothes. But he was not the only one executed, the entire sixteen-man guard unit was executed if only one of the members fell asleep while on duty.

Although the religious leaders felt satisfied when they handed Jesus over to Pontius Pilate to be crucified they remembered Jesus' words that He would come back from the dead. Consequently they asked Pilate to make the tomb as secure as possible. This consisted of a guard, a large stone rolled at the entrance of the tomb, and the Roman seal. However these precautions were worthless when it came to stopping the tomb from being empty on Easter Sunday. The disciples were not able to steal the body - Jesus came back from the dead!

Non-Biblical fabrications such as this are remarkable. Even if such 'strict rules' existed, and were applicable to that time and place, there's no way of knowing the degree to which they were followed in practice. The claims are meaningless if no source is cited. Furthermore, Matthew 28 states that the guards were bribed to say that they had fallen asleep - a brave thing to do if execution were the punishment:

[11] Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
[12] And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
[13] Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
[14] And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
[15] So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

Why would the guards feel certain that a bunch of Jewish priests would be able to dissuade Pilate from administering the 'strict rules' that applied to guards flouting their duty?

The other odd thing is that this is based solely on the version of the burial found in Matthew. The other gospels don't mention any religious leaders asking Pilate to secure the tomb on the Saturday - quite the contrary.

In Mark, Pilate gives the body to Joseph of Arimathaea, and Joseph is able to roll the stone in himself (as he is in Matthew). There is no mention of a guard being placed, Roman or otherwise, and the women come to anoint the body on the Sunday, evidently not expecting any problems in accessing it.

Luke agrees with Mark. Body given to J of A, women witness the laying out in the sepulchre and return after the Sabbath in order to anoint the corpse.

John suggests that this was just a temporary resting place until the Sabbath was over as the tomb was near at hand. Again, the body is given to Joseph by Pilate and he and others prepare it and place it in the sepulchre where Mary Magdalene visits it on the Sunday to find it empty. No mention of a Roman guard.

The interpolation in Matthew is presumably there to counter Jewish suggestions that the disciples stole the body. The passage above suggests that it's still being used for that purpose. North American Christianity can be a weird thing.

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2 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

Non-Biblical fabrications such as this are remarkable. Even if such 'strict rules' existed, and were applicable to that time and place, there's no way of knowing the degree to which they were followed in practice. The claims are meaningless if no source is cited

"So they went and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone and setting a guard." Matthew 27:66

So we know that there was a stone, a seal, and a guard.

1. The stone wouldn't have been disc shaped for a 'poor' person.

However, J of A was most likely wealthy, so who knows?

(I'm good either way.)

tomb-with-stopper.jpg

2. The chief priests went to Pilate to obtain a 'three day seal'.

Matthew 27:62. The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate  63. and said, “Sir, we remember how that impostor said, while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise.’ 64. Therefore order the tomb to be made secure until the third day, lest his disciples go and steal him away and tell the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last fraud will be worse than the first.”

3. Although I believe the severity of punishment to be extreme for anyone unlawfully breaking a Roman seal or for any Roman soldier who is lax or fails in their duties, I have to concede that the guard could very well have been Jewish.

Matthew 27:65. Pilate said to them, “You have a guard of soldiers. Go, make it as secure as you can.” 

3 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

Why would the guards feel certain that a bunch of Jewish priests  the chief priests would be able to dissuade Pilate from administering the 'strict rules' that applied to guards flouting their duty?

Because they themselves were Jewish.

It now makes sense to me that the Jewish guards would have reported to the chief Jewish priests.

(Either way though, the Apostles had mostly  all ran away and were in no position to challenge any guard.)

Matthew 28:14 "And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble. 15. So they took the money and did as they were directed. And this story has been spread among the Jews to this day."

3 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

The other odd thing is that this is based solely on the version of the burial found in Matthew. The other gospels don't mention any religious leaders asking Pilate to secure the tomb on the Saturday...

Which is fine.

As stated many times previously... The 4 Gospels are like 4 different 'camera angles' of the same events.

Not every camera will capture the same information as the other cameras, but all will be true.

3 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

- quite the contrary.

Really?

3 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

In Mark, Pilate gives the body to Joseph of Arimathaea, and Joseph is able to roll the stone in himself (as he is in Matthew). 

It shouldn't be assumed that these statements mean that Joseph acted alone in the rolling of the stone any more than in transporting Jesus' body to the tomb and wrapping it in linen. The natural understanding of this is that Joseph took responsibility for and oversaw these tasks. He didn't do them personally but had them done.

One can't apply legalism to the Bible. (Think 'Washington crossing the Delaware', etc.)

3 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

 There is no mention of a guard being placed, Roman or otherwise...

As long as it was recorded by one 'camera' (The Gospel according to Matthew) then it happened.

4 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

...and the women come to anoint the body on the Sunday, evidently not expecting any problems in accessing it.

Not true.

Firstly, remember that it was only a 'three day seal', and they only came to the tomb once that had expired.

And secondly, the women on the third day after the burial who came to anoint Jesus' body said to one another, "Who will roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb?" Mark 16:3

The three women, even working together, understood that they were unable to move the stone.

4 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

Luke agrees with Mark. Body given into the care of J of A, women witness the laying out in the sepulchre and return after the Sabbath in order to anoint the corpse.

OK

4 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

John suggests that this was just a temporary resting place until the Sabbath was over as the tomb was near at hand. Again, the body is given into the care of Joseph by Pilate and he and others prepare it and place it in the sepulchre where Mary Magdalene visits it on the Sunday to find it empty. 

OK

4 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

No mention of a Roman guard.

 There is, and I don't think they would have hung around after they 'came to', either.

Matthew 28 2. "And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.  4And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men." 

 

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5 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

The interpolation in Matthew is presumably there to...

WOW!  'interpolation'... 'presumably'...

5 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

...counter Jewish suggestions that the disciples stole the body. 

The chief priests and the Pharisees said that to Pilate themselves prior to Jesus' resurrection.

 Matthew 27:64 "Therefore order the tomb to be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples go and steal Him away and tell the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last fraud will be worse than the first.”

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Yeah, I'm good with all that, Scotty. I still consider it odd that only Matthew mentions the guard, and I think the explanation that this was to counter Jewish claims of the disciples stealing the body (which, as you say, is explicitly stated in Matthew itself) makes sense - it's just that I see it as a later addition once the accusations of body snatching had been made. Matthew contains plenty of evidence suggesting it was written for a Jewish-Christian audience, as opposed to Luke and John aiming at a gentile / Hellenistic readership. 

My only real objection was to all the pseudo-historical crap about guards being responsible for six-square-feet of space and being immolated for falling asleep, etc. As you point out, the guards need not have been Roman, but your man assumes they were, based upon no evidence whatsoever.  It's just written for gullible idiots who have no conception of the problematic nature of historical documentation, and I don't think anyone of this board falls into that category...

Edited by DonnyTJS
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3 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

 

Because they themselves were Jewish.

It now makes sense to me that the Jewish guards would have reported to the chief Jewish priests.

 

Yes, I agree that that makes far more sense than the 'Roman guard' crap in the stuff you initially posted. 

Honestly Scotty, I'm sure you're a busy bloke an' all, but you'd be far better off posting your own stuff than folk you find on the internet - you're way brighter than this one.

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5 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

...it's just that I see it as a later addition once the accusations of body snatching had been made. Matthew contains plenty of evidence suggesting it was written for a Jewish-Christian audience, as opposed to Luke and John aiming at a gentile / Hellenistic readership. 

Atheists and agnostics will always be looking for a crack in the armour in an attempt to justify their worldview of not having to be accountable to God.

Anyway, what other recourse would the chief Jewish priests have?

If Jesus' body were produced then Christianity would have died right there and then.

And if the Apostles did somehow unbelievably manage to get past the stone and the guard without anyone knowing, why would they each (except John) die a horrible death for the sake of a lie?

5 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

My only real objection was to all the pseudo-historical crap about guards being responsible for six-square-feet of space and being immolated for falling asleep, etc

I still believe that fwiw.

I just now believe that the guard was Jewish and not Roman.

5 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

Honestly Scotty, I'm sure you're a busy bloke an' all...

I'm overwhelmed with my current schedule and deadlines but wanted to acknowledge Christ's death and resurrection over this weekend.

I'll continue to make mistakes, and I'll continue to own up to them otherwise what's the point in claiming a genuine search for truth? 

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