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why are we not following convention and; 

-allowing independent and collaborative testing of the source

- unilaterally deciding a deadline for answers

- failing to give Russia any of the evidence

 

i'm not saying for one minute that Russia aren't as guilty as hell but if national conventions are there for this very thing why are we not going down that route?  We're basically saying to another state they have to accept any of our findings on the matter.

All on the eve of an election.  

Again no fan of Russia Today but our own BBC doesn't rebut the reasons the Russians give here...

just goes onto say our politicians say we should "hit them hard."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43394699

 

 

 

 

 

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This whole story does not ring true.  Why would Russia suddenly decide to try to kill someone who has been living here in plain sight for years?  What would they have to gain from it?  My inner cynic tells me this is something different from the line the compliant media are spinning.  I don't know what the reason is or who is actually responsible, but isn't it very convenient that Theresa May, drowning, is handed a lifeline in much the same way that Thatcher's political career was saved by being able to start a war in the Falklands?  There is more to this than meets the eye.  What a pity we don't have any decent investigative journalists who could join the dots.

Incidentally, I am appalled to see Ian Blackford jumping in unquestioningly in support of blaming Russia.  It may turn out that they ARE to blame, but right now nothing has been proved.  A bit of "if it is shown that this is down to Russia" caveatting would have been sensible.

Maybe the MSM should follow the money and find out exactly how much Russian cash is funding the Tories?  Someone ask Ruth Davidson how much she has received from whoring herself round oligarchs, selling dinners and so on?  Her and many others.  But the media turn a blind eye.

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Also worth noting that the Defence CBRN Centre - the UK's Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear defence and warfare training headquarters - is located at Winterbourne Gunner, Wiltshire, only four miles away from Sailsbury.

Something doesn't add up about this.

Edited by Clyde1998

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Also... if they wanted him dead then he'd be dead ..jeez they claimed this stuff can kill thousands.. after the world has spent billions developing these "drugs" are we expected to believe they don't have a lethal one ?

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4 hours ago, Alibi said:

This whole story does not ring true.  Why would Russia suddenly decide to try to kill someone who has been living here in plain sight for years?  What would they have to gain from it?  My inner cynic tells me this is something different from the line the compliant media are spinning.  I don't know what the reason is or who is actually responsible, but isn't it very convenient that Theresa May, drowning, is handed a lifeline in much the same way that Thatcher's political career was saved by being able to start a war in the Falklands?  There is more to this than meets the eye.  What a pity we don't have any decent investigative journalists who could join the dots.

Incidentally, I am appalled to see Ian Blackford jumping in unquestioningly in support of blaming Russia.  It may turn out that they ARE to blame, but right now nothing has been proved.  A bit of "if it is shown that this is down to Russia" caveatting would have been sensible.

Maybe the MSM should follow the money and find out exactly how much Russian cash is funding the Tories?  Someone ask Ruth Davidson how much she has received from whoring herself round oligarchs, selling dinners and so on?  Her and many others.  But the media turn a blind eye.

There seem to be a couple of narratives developing as to "why would Russia do this now". One is that by provoking action from the UK - who for obvious reasons would be seen in Russia as an old adversary and who in reality aren't capable of doing much that will really hurt Russia - this works to Putin's advantage domestically in the run up to the Presidential elections.  The other is that it's been done in a way that will trace back to Russia to act as a warning to the UK although why Russia would need to issue a warning to the UK is unclear.

i think there's definitely something of the Falklands in Theresa May's "tough" response at this time.  It certainly helps her in the same way as Putin to appear tough to the domestic audience.   That doesn't mean that it's a false flag operation but that the reaction does seem sterner than in other cases, certainly compared to Litvinenko and also I understand that there are other cases of Russians dying in mysterious sources that weren't investigated very thoroughly. 

I'd assume that Blackford and the FM would have both been briefed under Privy Council terms and would have seen whatever evidence there is - as would Corbyn - I doubt either of them would just give unqualified support to the UK government.   How concrete that evidence is, is anyone's guess, but I'd imagine they've seen whatever there is. 

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20 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

Also... if they wanted him dead then he'd be dead ..jeez they claimed this stuff can kill thousands.. after the world has spent billions developing these "drugs" are we expected to believe they don't have a lethal one ?

Actually, that's another thing that doesn't ring completely true either.  If this stuff is supposed to be so lethal then why is he still alive?

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i'm more than willing to believe the Russians have done this.  I just don't see why we're not following the convention...which would surely demonstrate it to be the case.

Corbyn asked the question I would have.  What is the response to the Russians request for the evidence and to follow the convention route to resolution?

I don't think there's anything to be gained for the SNP to not fully back the UK government on this though.  There's some things you have to back the state on.  Even if we have issues with the intelligence services it's not a good look to basically call your own liars in an inter-state argument.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

Also... if they wanted him dead then he'd be dead ..jeez they claimed this stuff can kill thousands.. after the world has spent billions developing these "drugs" are we expected to believe they don't have a lethal one ?

Definitely one of the weirdest parts of this story.  folk are going on as if they're already dead.  

if it was a state assassination on the qt, what a complete balls up.

on the other hand, they may be sending a message not to cross them.

Edited by PapofGlencoe

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2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

i'm more than willing to believe the Russians have done this.  I just don't see why we're not following the convention...which would surely demonstrate it to be the case.

Corbyn asked the question I would have.  What is the response to the Russians request for the evidence and to follow the convention route to resolution?

 

 

That's another point I don't understand either.   I don't think anyone expects the Russians to examine the sample and then say "thanks, we've been wondering what had happened to that" but by the same token, doing everything by the book surely makes your own case stronger.

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's another point I don't understand either.   I don't think anyone expects the Russians to examine the sample and then say "thanks, we've been wondering what had happened to that" but by the same token, doing everything by the book surely makes your own case stronger.

exactly.  I don't for a minute believe if they did it, they would own up to it but why give them the obvious get-out response?  

For all people laugh at the Brexit negotiations, Britain has long been a diplomatic power.  It's inconceivable to me that they would miss leaving the easy answer.  But I have no idea why.  

 

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11 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's another point I don't understand either.   I don't think anyone expects the Russians to examine the sample and then say "thanks, we've been wondering what had happened to that" but by the same token, doing everything by the book surely makes your own case stronger.

I'm not sure if anyone would trust Russian drug samples these days either. :lol:

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All seems very odd and I would tend to agree with some of other comments and reiterate that I've not read or seen any proof that this was indeed carried out by the Russian state. I'd also query why Russia would do this now, three months before a world cup, doesn't ring true.

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Im more worried that england might pull out of the world cup........and that Theresea thinks it should just get cancelled and moved somewhere more appropriate next year

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Was it really Russia? Maybe, probably, who knows.

This is probably a bit cynical, but if you spy against your own country, youre kinda asking for this to happen to you. I havent read much about this story, but Im guessing he was paid by the British intelligence services for info, he was happy and willing to take the money, now comes the payback. The people who do this, must know the risks.

  • Upvote 3

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I seriously doubt that England will pull out of the World Cup, the government isn't stupid enough not to realise that wouldn't go down well at home.

That said, I think any England fans can forget about going.  I don't see any visas being issued anytime soon.

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Be funny if CCTV eventually turns up and it clearly shows the Penguin, that villain from Batman, scooshing the Russian boy with gas out the bottom of his umbrella :)

 

Britain will have some apologising to do 

  • Haha 1

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1 minute ago, aaid said:

 I don't see any visas being issued anytime soon.

Could be wrong, but I think world cup fans dont need visas. Could be bollocks though.

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2 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Could be wrong, but I think world cup fans dont need visas. Could be bollocks though.

That is true. Nothing to stop them not allowing entry to UK passport holders though.    You think FIFA will put up a fight?

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7 minutes ago, aaid said:

That is true. Nothing to stop them not allowing entry to UK passport holders though.    You think FIFA will put up a fight?

Yeah thats true I suppose, it might be a good thing for English fans though, I think some Russians will be out to get them. FIFA v Putin would be a bit one sided, only 1 winner there :lol:

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1 hour ago, kumnio said:

Was it really Russia? Maybe, probably, who knows.

This is probably a bit cynical, but if you spy against your own country, youre kinda asking for this to happen to you. I havent read much about this story, but Im guessing he was paid by the British intelligence services for info, he was happy and willing to take the money, now comes the payback. The people who do this, must know the risks.

From what I recall the double agent was part of a prisoner exchange.  My query would be if a secret agent got bumped off after being released doesn't that put such future exchanges in jeopardy, I'm not sure that's in anyones interests including Russia's (and obviously not any secret agent they release in any such exchange)

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