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First job for mcleish....


Malcolm

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6 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

If the boy McTominay  say's no to Scotland waits a year or two hoping for an England call up which doesn't happen then decides on Scotland what sort of reception will he get?

I won’t be around to see. Because if that happens I’m done.

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Just now, Paulo2576 said:

It will be shit, but no worse than the players we already have who’ve already played for England at under 21s I don’t think 

I agree. But the older I get the more exasperated I’m becoming with pish like that. 

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2 hours ago, Ormond said:

I won’t be around to see. Because if that happens I’m done.

90% of the Anglos to play for us would have been in that position. 

Hardly any would have grown up wanting to play for Scotland. Notable exceptions would maybe be Andy Goram and Stuart McCall. Most of the rest only considered us when it became apparent they weren’t good enough to play for England.

Why would you stop supporting Scotland if this lad does the same as most of the rest of them?

I suppose the only difference for McTominay is we would have asked him first. He might reject us or ask for more time to consider it (it is quite a big decision to be fair) and he might even change his mind in future. 

If he did turn us down then changed his mind in future and became a huge player for us would that be such a bad thing?

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8 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

 

If he did turn us down then changed his mind in future and became a huge player for us would that be such a bad thing?

Personally I think it is. Call me old fashioned but I grew up dreaming of playing for my country and when I turned up at hampden I am stood beside thousands of people who were exactly the same. By extension I want the guys on the pitch to have been the same. Unfortunately the dilution of international football is only going one way and I share ormonds exasperation. I can certainly see a time when it happens just one too many times. 

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15 hours ago, Paulo2576 said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/manchester-united-scott-mctominay-profile-sevilla-champions-league-jose-mourinho-a8222296.html

interesting article on him, basically praising him for doing nothing. Not sure I want Scott brown to step aside just yet!!

Just read that, any one who hasn't should. Confirms every thing I have said and gives the explanation!  

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9 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

90% of the Anglos to play for us would have been in that position. 

Hardly any would have grown up wanting to play for Scotland. Notable exceptions would maybe be Andy Goram and Stuart McCall. Most of the rest only considered us when it became apparent they weren’t good enough to play for England.

Why would you stop supporting Scotland if this lad does the same as most of the rest of them?

I suppose the only difference for McTominay is we would have asked him first. He might reject us or ask for more time to consider it (it is quite a big decision to be fair) and he might even change his mind in future. 

If he did turn us down then changed his mind in future and became a huge player for us would that be such a bad thing?

Think you could add a few others there, Graham Alexander, Don Hutchison.

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1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Think you could add a few others there, Graham Alexander, Don Hutchison.

Graham Alexander definitely always considered himself Scottish. Even gave an interview about how pissed off he was when Matt Elliott got his first call up, even though he didn't support us and iirc, even used to take the mick out of Alexander in the dressing room for supporting Scotland. Hutchinson also considered himself Scottish. 

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4 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Think you could add a few others there, Graham Alexander, Don Hutchison.

There will be more as well. I suppose you could count Steven Fletcher as well although the did move here when he was young. 

I think I might have been wrong about Stuart McCall though. I think he might have played for the England u21s before us. 

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4 hours ago, Paulo2576 said:

Personally I think it is. Call me old fashioned but I grew up dreaming of playing for my country and when I turned up at hampden I am stood beside thousands of people who were exactly the same. By extension I want the guys on the pitch to have been the same. Unfortunately the dilution of international football is only going one way and I share ormonds exasperation. I can certainly see a time when it happens just one too many times. 

I agree it’s not ideal but it would hardly be the disaster some people are making out. 

It’s been happening for decades and it will continue to happen.

If someone feels that strongly about it that they would stop going to Scotland games then fair enough but it seems odd to me to  do so because of one player when similar situations have been going on for years. 

Apparently, Stuart McCall was picked for Scotland U21s and England U21s on the same day and chose England. He later changed his mind and played for us. This type of thing is not new. 

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14 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

90% of the Anglos to play for us would have been in that position. 

Hardly any would have grown up wanting to play for Scotland. Notable exceptions would maybe be Andy Goram and Stuart McCall. Most of the rest only considered us when it became apparent they weren’t good enough to play for England.

Why would you stop supporting Scotland if this lad does the same as most of the rest of them?

Goram and McCall were both selected for England U21 squads and sat on the bench before opting for Scotland.  Under the rules at the time if they'd come on they would have then been tied to England.  They both went on to be great players for Scotland and I'm pretty sure they didn't regret their decision but I'm also sure they knew exactly what they were doing by opting for England first.

Some players I can think of who really were notable exceptions were Graham Alexander and Paul Devlin who only ever wanted to play for Scotland.  The biggest one though is Don Hutchison who was put under pressure by Liverpool - when Souness was manager - not to play for Scotland as it would have meant that he would have been counted as a "foreign" player under the rules for UEFA competitions at that time and it would have restricted his opportunities.

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17 hours ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

If the boy McTominay  say's no to Scotland waits a year or two hoping for an England call up which doesn't happen then decides on Scotland what sort of reception will he get?

The one he'd deserve.

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

Goram and McCall were both selected for England U21 squads and sat on the bench before opting for Scotland.  Under the rules at the time if they'd come on they would have then been tied to England.  They both went on to be great players for Scotland and I'm pretty sure they didn't regret their decision but I'm also sure they knew exactly what they were doing by opting for England first.

Some players I can think of who really were notable exceptions were Graham Alexander and Paul Devlin who only ever wanted to play for Scotland.  The biggest one though is Don Hutchison who was put under pressure by Liverpool - when Souness was manager - not to play for Scotland as it would have meant that he would have been counted as a "foreign" player under the rules for UEFA competitions at that time and it would have restricted his opportunities.

I think the difference with Goram is he always considered himself to be Scottish (sitting on the England U21 bench or not) as he’s told me this himself. Although he could have been talking shite I suppose. 

Hutchison was a bit of a strange one. I think he may have thought of himself as English (to begin with anyway) but wanted to play for Scotland for his Dad. Hard to tell I suppose. The guys mentioned here always gave their all for Scotland and I don’t remember too many people having s go at Goram, McCall, James Morrison etc for joining English unders squads before playing for us.

Souness was always a bellend when it came to letting his players play international football. I’m sure he made McCoist and Johnston and guys like that pretend to be injured when Scotland games came around when he was Rangers manager. 

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4 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I think the difference with Goram is he always considered himself to be Scottish (sitting on the England U21 bench or not) as he’s told me this himself. Although he could have been talking shite I suppose. 

Which Andy Goram was that?

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12 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I think the difference with Goram is he always considered himself to be Scottish (sitting on the England U21 bench or not) as he’s told me this himself. Although he could have been talking shite I suppose. 

I honestly cannot see how someone can consider themselves to be Scottish but are then willing to go very close to representing another country.

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24 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I honestly cannot see how someone can consider themselves to be Scottish but are then willing to go very close to representing another country.

What if you’re half Scottish and half English? 

Goram’s dad was Scottish  but I think his Mum was English. 

Dual nationality is quite common. You can see yourself as being Australian and Greek or Scottish and Pakistani or whatever. 

 

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1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

What if you’re half Scottish and half English? 

Goram’s dad was Scottish  but I think his Mum was English. 

Dual nationality is quite common. You can see yourself as being Australian and Greek or Scottish and Pakistani or whatever. 

 

I get that but if he says he considered himself to be Scottish then Scotland is your one and only choice of country to play for surely? Same goes for McTominay if he feels English then England is who he should opt for.

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7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I get that but if he says he considered himself to be Scottish then Scotland is your one and only choice of country to play for surely? Same goes for McTominay if he feels English then England is who he should opt for.

That’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?

That’s obviously how you feel but maybe not everyone feels that way. 

If you’re half and half it might not be as clear cut as it would be for me and you. 

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1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

That’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?

That’s obviously how you feel but maybe not everyone feels that way. 

If you’re half and half it might not be as clear cut as it would be for me and you. 

I am only going by what Goram said that he considered himself Scottish (not English then). Did he sound genuine when he told you that?

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