fringo Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 21 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said: The Guy who was involved in setting up the original tamb? Ezzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidane Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 23/02/2018 at 10:24 AM, Flure said: To mark his 60th birthday, Ludo (and if you don't know who that is you're not a "real" Scotland fan) went to Argentina. He hitched a lift with the Scottish rugby team who were doing a South American tour. He made his way to Mendoza to recreate Archie's goal. The stadium is still there but is not now in use. The local Mayor knew he was coming and some local Civic staff were there to help Ludo. They stood where the Dutch defenders were and Ludo danced between and around them to score. On the flight over he had been telling a couple of BBC employees who had been sent to cover the tour, of what he was up to. When they landed, the BBC guys got back in touch with BBC Scotland to ask if they could go to Mendoza to cover this, but the BBC wouldn't pay for the costs of the flights. Aye I arrived at the stadium to do exactly the same thing about 4 hours after that and the groundsman said "your friend was just here!" Wasnt that much of a coincidence as it was the 30th anniversary of the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Scotland 78: A Love story BBC1 Wed 6th June at 9pm Is this it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 24 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Scotland 78: A Love story BBC1 Wed 6th June at 9pm Is this it ? I believe so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) More “wha’s like us” pish People criticise the English fans and media for talking about 1966, a tournament that they won. Fair play to them Our fans sing about England getting knocked out a World Cup quarter final because we’ve never achieved fuck all for ourselves The English media refer back to winning the World Cup in 1966 constantly and rightly so. This year alone our media have done two page spread specials about getting pumped of Costa Rica and Peru and also interviewed someones daughter in her own living room who scored against us for Peru. These articles were bigged up as some sort of fond memory England live in the past but I’d rather have their past than ours Edited June 2, 2018 by DoonTheSlope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said: England live in the past but I’d rather have their past than ours But then you would be English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Argentina 78 is a defining moment in Scottish Footballing history Our mindset has never been the same again after that If you werent old enough you wont appeciate that but i can guarantee that Scottish Football fans who are, and the country as a whole experienced a trauma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Argentina 78 is a defining moment in Scottish Footballing history Our mindset has never been the same again after that If you werent old enough you wont appeciate that but i can guarantee that Scottish Football fans who are, and the country as a whole experienced a trauma My first World Cup that I can really remember and I can completely agree with this. The expectation was enormous... the group stage a formality and then it was about how we performed against the bigger teams (ie our peers). It’s really not far fetched to think we could win it. Only 16 teams back then and we were probably in the top 6, I think we were 8-1 to win the cup. If it had been in Europe and we had us full strength team (ie Mcgrain and McQueen) every chance we could have won it. Our first 11 could have been... Rough Jardine Mcqueen buchan Mcgrain Gemmil souness Hartford Robertson Dalglish Jordan Watching the Perú game, I remember it being a Saturday evening, we scored and my dad turned and said to me “watch this... we will score a few more now”. Genuine shock when we were pumped. after this things were never the same... stein brought pragmatism, playing a solid 4-4-2, with usually a defender in midfield and often without wingers. We were making up the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Argentina 78 is a defining moment in Scottish Footballing history Our mindset has never been the same again after that If you werent old enough you wont appeciate that but i can guarantee that Scottish Football fans who are, and the country as a whole experienced a trauma I see what you mean but then I struggle to understand the psyche before 78. Was our golden period 74-78? Because we didn't qualify for much before 74. Even the 'world beating' 3-2 in 67 was part of a failed European championship qualification campaign (where it appears we lost to the weakest team in the group, NI, their only victory, part of a pattern?). As far as I can tell the Scottish football psyche was buoyed for decades by home international successes or at least, punching above our weight against England. So I guess I'm saying, if you look at it objectively, Scotland has always been at a certain level, let's just say somewhere in the middle. Arguably, borderline qualification for major tournaments is our natural level, and as such, it's no disgrace to make it to a finals but bow out at the group stage. You could argue that going out on goal difference in 74 and 82 and 96 for example, were reasonable results (if you think that's aiming low, then compared to what? when did we ever do better?). It's only inflated expectations that makes it seem like glorious failure, as opposed to par for the course. Maybe what the frustration is that we had a chance to do better, to punch above our weight, like in 78, 74 and 82, we were that close. Maybe especially 78 as Malcolm says, the raised expectation was not even unreasonable. But the sense of disappointment no less for that. The difference with other smaller nations - like Denmark and Northern Ireland and Ireland and Costa Rica and Norway and most recently Wales and Iceland, the difference was that when they had a purple patch, on a roll, full of 'top league' players, they took their chance; we didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Malcolm said: My first World Cup that I can really remember and I can completely agree with this. The expectation was enormous... the group stage a formality and then it was about how we performed against the bigger teams (ie our peers). It’s really not far fetched to think we could win it. Only 16 teams back then and we were probably in the top 6, I think we were 8-1 to win the cup. If it had been in Europe and we had us full strength team (ie Mcgrain and McQueen) every chance we could have won it. Our first 11 could have been... Rough Jardine Mcqueen buchan Mcgrain Gemmil souness Hartford Robertson Dalglish Jordan Watching the Perú game, I remember it being a Saturday evening, we scored and my dad turned and said to me “watch this... we will score a few more now”. Genuine shock when we were pumped. after this things were never the same... stein brought pragmatism, playing a solid 4-4-2, with usually a defender in midfield and often without wingers. We were making up the numbers. Isn't that a bit 4-2-2? Wouldn't we have had Willie Johnston in there? And Rioch and Masson, until that precise moment (Peru, 75 minutes), would have been considered the pick of the midfielders, at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, exile said: Isn't that a bit 4-2-2? Wouldn't we have had Willie Johnston in there? And Rioch and Masson, until that precise moment (Peru, 75 minutes), would have been considered the pick of the midfielders, at the time? John robertson would be a straight swap for Willie Johnstone as an outside left. Yeah, with hindsight Rioch and Masson were a year or two passed their best.... souness was the choice that should have been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Malcolm said: John robertson would be a straight swap for Willie Johnstone as an outside left. Yeah, with hindsight Rioch and Masson were a year or two passed their best.... souness was the choice that should have been made. Amazing to think how many big game, big club players and European Cup (Winners') Cup Winners there - Souness and Dalglish had just won the 78 European Cup (Dalglish scoring the winning goal from a Souness assist), Jardine and Johnston (scoring in final) had Cup Winners' Cup medals, Robertson was about to win 2 European Cups (scoring winning goal in 1980); Jordan, McQueen and Buchan were 'just' at Man United (Jordan later bound for Milan), Hartford at Man City (and briefly for European champions Notts Forest, who Gemmill also played for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, exile said: I see what you mean but then I struggle to understand the psyche before 78. Was our golden period 74-78? Because we didn't qualify for much before 74. Even the 'world beating' 3-2 in 67 was part of a failed European championship qualification campaign (where it appears we lost to the weakest team in the group, NI, their only victory, part of a pattern?). As far as I can tell the Scottish football psyche was buoyed for decades by home international successes or at least, punching above our weight against England. We approached the European Championships as secondary and used them towards World Cup qualification from what i recall The two years prior to Argentina was our golden period when the belief started to build - in fact it was right after the humiliation at Wembley in 1975 We played 25 games from then until the opening game of 78 against Peru and only lost 4 times Away to Czechoslovakia in 76, away to Brazil and East Germany in 77 and at home to England in 78 before we set off In that run we had beaten England home and away in 76 and 77 and drew against Argentina (pre WC favourites and hosts) in Buenos Aires It was unusual in the period for Scotland to lose Also it had been only 10 years since England had won the World Cup - if we were better than them why couldnt we win it We had qualified in 74 and 78 when England hadnt and they had some smashing players - that was another achievement in itself - being recognised as the most successful International team from the UK in that period Add to that we were the first team to go to a World Cup and come home undefeated in 74 and really should have beaten Brazil. And as you mentioned in your previous post our squad consisted of real winners who had major successes with their clubs Edited June 3, 2018 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 21 hours ago, Malcolm said: My first World Cup that I can really remember and I can completely agree with this. The expectation was enormous... the group stage a formality and then it was about how we performed against the bigger teams (ie our peers). It’s really not far fetched to think we could win it. Only 16 teams back then and we were probably in the top 6, I think we were 8-1 to win the cup. If it had been in Europe and we had us full strength team (ie Mcgrain and McQueen) every chance we could have won it. Our first 11 could have been... Rough Jardine Mcqueen buchan Mcgrain Gemmil souness Hartford Robertson Dalglish Jordan Watching the Perú game, I remember it being a Saturday evening, we scored and my dad turned and said to me “watch this... we will score a few more now”. Genuine shock when we were pumped. after this things were never the same... stein brought pragmatism, playing a solid 4-4-2, with usually a defender in midfield and often without wingers. We were making up the numbers. If we had had a full squad with no injuries, I am fairly confident that Tom Forsyth would have partnered McQueen in central defence. Buchan would have been more likely to get a game at full back as cover for Jardine who, I think, wasn't fully fit. I'm not sure that Robertson even had a cap before going to Argentina? Willie Johnston was always going to start, barring drug convictions. Souness only had a handful of caps at that time as well. You hear lots of folk saying that Rioch or Masson should have been dropped in favour of Souness but I don't think folk were saying that until after the event. The debate was usually about which three would play from the four of Rioch, Masson, Gemmill or Hartford. Souness was just starting his international career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I'm not sure that Robertson even had a cap before going to Argentina? Played against the Irish in the home internationals. I was there. Was impressed by his use of elastic to hold his socks up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: We approached the European Championships as secondary and used them towards World Cup qualification from what i recall The two years prior to Argentina was our golden period when the belief started to build - in fact it was right after the humiliation at Wembley in 1975 We played 25 games from then until the opening game of 78 against Peru and only lost 4 times Away to Czechoslovakia in 76, away to Brazil and East Germany in 77 and at home to England in 78 before we set off In that run we had beaten England home and away in 76 and 77 and drew against Argentina (pre WC favourites and hosts) in Buenos Aires It was unusual in the period for Scotland to lose Also it had been only 10 years since England had won the World Cup - if we were better than them why couldnt we win it We had qualified in 74 and 78 when England hadnt and they had some smashing players - that was another achievement in itself - being recognised as the most successful International team from the UK in that period Add to that we were the first team to go to a World Cup and come home undefeated in 74 and really should have beaten Brazil. And as you mentioned in your previous post our squad consisted of real winners who had major successes with their clubs Aye we were ranked 4th in world prior to the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Aye we were ranked 4th in world prior to the finals. Who by? I don't think FIFA did rankings at that time? I would have put us in the top six though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Played against the Irish in the home internationals. I was there. Was impressed by his use of elastic to hold his socks up. Aye, I just checked, he also came on as a late sub against Wales. Souness had 6 caps at the time, I was obviously talking about a Fifer's handful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Czechoslovakia were also European Champions in 1976 and were eliminated by Scotland in qualifying Another addition to why there was such hype Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Czechoslovakia were also European Champions in 1976 and were eliminated by Scotland in qualifying Another addition to why there was such hype When we beat them 3-1 at hampden, that was the best performance from a Scotland team that I have ever seen. The team that played that night was our best line up and if we could have played that same line up in Argentina we could have gone far. Losing McQueen was a huge blow to our chances. He was probably the best centre half in the world at the time. And opposition defences damn near shat themselves every time he went up fo a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: Who by? I don't think FIFA did rankings at that time? I would have put us in the top six though. The Elo ratings system applied historically. According to Wikipedia we were ranked 7th before the finals (5th out of actual competing teams)... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings We were as high as 4th though when we qualified in 1977. Interesting to note we were ranked 2nd in 1930 but didn't participate in the tournament. Our best chance of World Cup success might've been the very first one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Toepoke said: The Elo ratings system applied historically. According to Wikipedia we were ranked 7th before the finals (5th out of actual competing teams)... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings We were as high as 4th though when we qualified in 1977. Changed days. We're more likely to be trying to avoid pot 4, than aspiring to be 4th in the whole world. Obviously there are more countries now, and many more more-developed footballing nations across all continents. But even within Western Europe we've gone backwards. Wha's like us - Hungary? Edited June 3, 2018 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, exile said: Wha's like us - Hungary? Probably. Maybe Austria too, they were considered to be the world's best team back in the 1930s.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderteam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Orraloon said: When we beat them 3-1 at hampden, that was the best performance from a Scotland team that I have ever seen. The team that played that night was our best line up and if we could have played that same line up in Argentina we could have gone far. Losing McQueen was a huge blow to our chances. He was probably the best centre half in the world at the time. And opposition defences damn near shat themselves every time he went up fo a corner. And McGrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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