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6 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

 

The criteria is won a euro trophy at any point AND their league in the last 20 years.

So Liverpool aren't a big club anymore, as they haven't won their league in the last 20.  It's to differentiate between clubs who have historic success and recent success.

For example: Wolves were a massive club in the 50's would you say they are now, same with liverpool they were a huge european club but they have fallen away from being a superclub like the bayern's, juve's rmadrid's.

 

Yes I would say Zenit are a big club, they have a euro trophy, multiple leagues, and a large fan base in russia.  Maybe because they get little coverage here nobody would know how big they are.

And then in a further post you mentioned history as a criteria so which is it?

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12 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

So Rangers and celtic are bigger than all of these clubs?  Because there support is larger, maybe not manu.  But rangers did take 200,000 to Manchester for a uefa cup final, can't see any of these clubs doing that if a final was in glasgow.

I'd say Celtic and Rangers are bigger than all of the English clubs except Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal.

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32 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

What is the fascination with people up here who choose Newcastle as their English team?

What is the fascination for people anywhere picking a club that has nothing at all to do with them? Guys like that are for the watching. One club, one country for me. 

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2 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

i'll get this out the road early.

Rangers were a big club until they died etc etc etc.

By SWWC's daft definition, Rangers will still be a "Big Club" until at least 2031. You can tell that interesting fact to your pals doon the pub tonight.:ok:

 

Edited by Orraloon
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43 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

I'd say being a big club constitutes winning both national cups in recent years, the finest and biggest football stadium in their city, the only club in the city to OWN their training facilities, a European record others bar 3 possibly 4 could only dream off

Hibernian!

I didn't realise until right there just now that although they were scudded 7-0 at home by Malmo in 2013, Hibs had previously beaten the same club 6-0 back in 19-oatcake.

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12 minutes ago, adamntg said:

I didn't realise until right there just now that although they were scudded 7-0 at home by Malmo in 2013, Hibs had previously beaten the same club 6-0 back in 19-oatcake.

After that went out to Leeds/Liverpool. Always used to fall short when it came to those two

Some say Hibs would have won the League and Cup Winners Cup in 1973 if it hadn't been for John Brownlie breaking his leg making it a treble for the season, ironically being in the semi draw with Leeds Utd (League Cup won in December 1972)

Not many Scottish teams have put 4 past Barcelona at the Nou Camp or put 5 past Dino Zoff. Also beat Real Madrid at Easter Road

Not many have been fucked off FK Vetra in the Interscholastics either 😂

Edited by DoonTheSlope
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2 hours ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

How can you be a big club and not be able to win or even compete for your domestic league?  You are conflating money with success.  Trophys, history and fanbase make big clubs, TV money has distorted the way people view this.

For example are Chelsea or Ajax the bigger club?

For me Ajax, because of 40 years of success, 4 CL's, and a massive global fanbase.

Chelsea 15 years of success, 1CL, and alot of chinese fans.

You can't say Ajax are bigger than Chelsea and say Liverpool aren't a big club. Ajax are in the same boat as Liverpool and fare far worse in Europe and fan base. 

You're just talking mince. 

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4 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

You can't say Ajax are bigger than Chelsea and say Liverpool aren't a big club. Ajax are in the same boat as Liverpool and fare far worse in Europe and fan base. 

You're just talking mince. 

Ajax have a richer history there's no doubt about that.

It's what we're fed by the English media up here though that the bee-all-and-end-all ranges from Southampton to Scotch Corner which has brainwashed many youngsters and even older fans

 

 

Edited by DoonTheSlope
In regards to. Chelsea
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49 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

By SWWC's daft definition, Rangers will still be a "Big Club" until at least 2031. You can tell that interesting fact to your pals doon the pub tonight.:ok:

 

None of the Scottish clubs are big clubs anymore. TV money has seen to that. 

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1 hour ago, DoonTheSlope said:

I'd say being a big club constitutes winning both national cups in recent years, the finest and biggest football stadium in their city, the only club in the city to OWN their training facilities, a European record others bar 3 possibly 4 could only dream off

Hibernian!

Losing 7-0 at home to Malmo isn't that impressive m8

Edit - already got beaten to that!

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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I dont class United or even care whether they are  seen as a ‘big club’  Even when we were horsing the best in Europe I never thought we were a big club

In fact, Im proud of the fact we are a wee club that ( used to ) punch well above its weight.

Always find this debate the ultimate in cock waving. 

Edited by Jim Beem
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5 hours ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

 

The criteria is won a euro trophy at any point AND their league in the last 20 years.

So Liverpool aren't a big club anymore, as they haven't won their league in the last 20.  It's to differentiate between clubs who have historic success and recent success.

For example: Wolves were a massive club in the 50's would you say they are now, same with liverpool they were a huge european club but they have fallen away from being a superclub like the bayern's, juve's rmadrid's.

 

Yes I would say Zenit are a big club, they have a euro trophy, multiple leagues, and a large fan base in russia.  Maybe because they get little coverage here nobody would know how big they are.

Apologies for not reading correctly, but to suggest Zenit are a bigger club that Liverpool some statement and when you mention the super club Juve, I had to check the last time they won a european trophy!! 

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I think a 'big club' must mean a combination of sustained big attendance and success on the pitch - being mostly in the highest league and winning big trophies from time to time.

It can't be all about trophies and leagues, as you've got to allow for small and medium sized clubs to win trophies. And you've got to allow 'sleeping giants' like Newcastle to be still big clubs (otherwise they wouldn't be 'giants') even if they are [were] in a lower league. 

It can't be all about attendance, otherwise, you could fill a stadium every week but if you're always in a lower tier and never win anything you'd be laughed at. (Scotland could fill every stadium every game but it wouldn't make us a 'big country')

If Liverpool are not big club then your criteria must be wrong. When Alex Ferguson moved from Aberdeen to Man United, he moved from a big club to a club that was about to stop being a big club?

I'd say Leeds must be a test case, but surely Leeds must be a big club. But not Bradford. Or Leicester. As above, surely the magic of the Leicester premiership title was that it wasn't (isn't) a big club but a medium sized one?

 

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I don't think really that you'll ever create a set of rules for defining a big club because everyone will rig it for their own. My argument will be that you can't start history at an arbitrary point, so I support a club that has won plenty in its time. Just not recently. We have more league titles than Spurs & West Ham combined & are joint 11th in the list of all-time winners.

If you start the clock in 1930 or beyond, we're sh1te & we know it for most of those years.

It's always interesting that Leeds crop up. The media always, pretty much every televised game (& they get a lot of them) talk in terms of being giants of the game, getting back where they belong, and the classic "the PL needs Leeds United." But watch Notts Forest, who actually have been European champions twice, they always seem to be defined in terms of how far they have fallen, long-gone days, etc. Who is the bigger club of those two?

So I'm going for results on the field as the best judge. Have you played whoever your judging recently & did you win?

Which makes us bigger than Man Utd. Until next Saturday.

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34 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

I don't think really that you'll ever create a set of rules for defining a big club because everyone will rig it for their own. My argument will be that you can't start history at an arbitrary point, so I support a club that has won plenty in its time. Just not recently. We have more league titles than Spurs & West Ham combined & are joint 11th in the list of all-time winners.

If you start the clock in 1930 or beyond, we're sh1te & we know it for most of those years.

It's always interesting that Leeds crop up. The media always, pretty much every televised game (& they get a lot of them) talk in terms of being giants of the game, getting back where they belong, and the classic "the PL needs Leeds United." But watch Notts Forest, who actually have been European champions twice, they always seem to be defined in terms of how far they have fallen, long-gone days, etc. Who is the bigger club of those two?

So I'm going for results on the field as the best judge. Have you played whoever your judging recently & did you win?

Which makes us bigger than Man Utd. Until next Saturday.

i think it also depends if the point of the question is to set aside a special set of 'big clubs' who are always rightfully 'big' regardless of league position - so that would allow for teams like Man U and Man City and even Leeds U to be considered big clubs (even if relegated) whereas Leicester, Blackburn and even Nottingham Forest could be considered second tier over-achievers.

Otherwise it just becomes a question of who's doing well at a particular point in time - which could allow anyone who ever won their top league to be counted - which could be more objective but probably not so interesting.

Dundee United is interesting as Jim McLean considered /accepted them as 'provincial' (in a sense, over-achievers) even when winning trophies and beating European elite teams (as someone said). Similarly the fact that people talk about 'sleeping giants' implies bigness is irrespective of current league position. So I'd tend to stick to bigness being the subjective sense, which is why it causes such  debate and mock outrage.

So... is Queen''s Park a big club? Bristol City? Notts County?... 

 

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18 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd say a big club would be one that's not been relegated for say the last 25 years at least and have won at least a couple of domestic honours in that time.

 

18 hours ago, Toepoke said:

:-)) Seconded!

There clearly has to be a carve out from the above for any team that has failed to beat a peer team in 17 attempts...... :P

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15 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

I dont class United or even care whether they are  seen as a ‘big club’  Even when we were horsing the best in Europe I never thought we were a big club

In fact, Im proud of the fact we are a wee club that ( used to ) punch well above its weight.

Always find this debate the ultimate in cock waving. 

100% this

my team share a city with a massive behemoth juggernaut of a club and we still do alright #weeteam

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22 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

You can't say Ajax are bigger than Chelsea and say Liverpool aren't a big club. Ajax are in the same boat as Liverpool and fare far worse in Europe and fan base. 

You're just talking mince. 

 

22 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Ajax have a richer history there's no doubt about that.

It's what we're fed by the English media up here though that the bee-all-and-end-all ranges from Southampton to Scotch Corner which has brainwashed many youngsters and even older fans

 

 

Agree brainwashed to believe the sob league is somehow better than all the others, richest yes, technical, tatical no.  Remember a few years back there was only 1 draw in the first couple of rounds and the tv presenter goes thats why we are the best in the world because everybody goes for the win, next season one round has 7-8 draws, thats why we are the best in the world because every game is between equals!! Daft.

Look some don't like my simple criteria (euro trophy and league in last 20) but it fits every so called big club in europe except liverpool, whats wrong with that criteria?  But its all up for debate, sure.

However, Ajax are a bigger club than chelsea ( i guess if chelsea remain where they are for another 30? years that would probably make them equal.)

Also, talking mince, liverpool and ajax are in the same boat, well they aren;t financially or on pitch any more but fanbase, you are talking absolute horse mince if you think liverpool's are bigger, Ajax are a european institution, with half a country supporting them, and liverpool can't even win a domestic league.

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On 1/30/2018 at 2:32 PM, Toepoke said:

I'd say Celtic and Rangers are bigger than all of the English clubs except Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal.

I agree Celtic and Rangers are bigger, probably except manu though.

Also, European Superclubs in no particular order, there are only 7

Real Madrid

Barcelona

Juventus

AC Milan

Inter Milan

Bayern Munich

ManU

 

and maybe rangers and celtic if we use my alcohol tax to give them a nudge up!

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