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Bids to replace Hampden


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43 minutes ago, ShedTA said:

Agree with a lot of this. But what is also way out of line with reality is that the sfa have 10s of millions to spend improving Hampden. They don't. So if they stay at Hampden it will likely remain the way it is for a long time. A poor spectator stadium for many and inferior to murrayfield or celtic park / ibrox. 

I think to rule out murrayfield just because it's a rugby stadium is short sighted and small minded and symptomatic of the Ills of the Scottish game.  As a stadium there is little comparison.

 

I prefer Hampden to Murrayfield.

And at least the roof doesn't leak at Hampden, unlike some other large stadia in Glasgow *cough* Celtic Park *cough*

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52 minutes ago, ShedTA said:

Agree with a lot of this. But what is also way out of line with reality is that the sfa have 10s of millions to spend improving Hampden. They don't. So if they stay at Hampden it will likely remain the way it is for a long time. A poor spectator stadium for many and inferior to murrayfield or celtic park / ibrox. 

I think to rule out murrayfield just because it's a rugby stadium is short sighted and small minded and symptomatic of the Ills of the Scottish game.  As a stadium there is little comparison.

Dragging say hibs/hearts through to Hampden for a match when murrayfield is sitting there empty is madness. And if the sfa stay at Hampden that will likely continue. It's that sort of mentality that has and is holding our game back. 

So the sfa will stay at Hampden of that I am sure.

Are you suggesting we use both Hampden and Murrayfield?

If not, Rangers and Celtic would be dragged through to Edinburgh. Same situation. 

Using both would make sense potentially but if the SFA buy Hampden I would imagine all relevant games will be played there. They won’t want to split the revenue with anyone else. 

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3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

And then growing it to the required length again when there’s a rugby match the following week? Or three days later?

You must be some gardener mate. 

Rarely have football and rugby internationals within space of a few days. Rugby games quite often played on football pitches -  not really a problem. 

I am quite a good gardener actually but in this instance i wouldn't have to be one.

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2 hours ago, adamntg said:

I prefer Hampden to Murrayfield.

And at least the roof doesn't leak at Hampden, unlike some other large stadia in Glasgow *cough* Celtic Park *cough*

Fair enough and this is it. It's mostly about preferences and emotions not just cold hard common / monetary sense. Always will be i guess.

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2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Are you suggesting we use both Hampden and Murrayfield?

If not, Rangers and Celtic would be dragged through to Edinburgh. Same situation. 

Using both would make sense potentially but if the SFA buy Hampden I would imagine all relevant games will be played there. They won’t want to split the revenue with anyone else. 

Would be an enlightened move rather than constantly dragging east coast teams through to Glasgow. 

Can't see it though. It's the sfa after all and they are about as far from enlightened as it's possible to get. 

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55 minutes ago, ShedTA said:

Rarely have football and rugby internationals within space of a few days. Rugby games quite often played on football pitches -  not really a problem. 

I am quite a good gardener actually but in this instance i wouldn't have to be one.

17 November 2018 - Scotland v South Africa

20 November 2018 - Scotland v Israel

24 November 2018 - Scotland v Argentina 

It will probably happen more often than you think, especially now there are no Euro playoffs in November.

The grass issue was just a small one that came to mind. The difference probably isn’t that much but how long before the rugby hooray Henrys start moaning about it if there are clashes?

A bigger concern would be what happens if the SRU want to play a game in October or November when we’ve got a match? I’m sure we can all work around each other but why give yourself that hassle if you don’t need to?

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1 hour ago, ShedTA said:

Would be an enlightened move rather than constantly dragging east coast teams through to Glasgow. 

Can't see it though. It's the sfa after all and they are about as far from enlightened as it's possible to get. 

Why would it be enlightened? To help out a smaller group of people? Don’t really get your logic there. 

The only 2 reasons I could see for moving to Murrayfield would be:

1. It has a bigger capacity. 

2. If it would represent a significant financial saving.

How often would we need s capacity of 67,500? Once a campaign? If that?

Buying Hampden would do away with the need to pay rent to anyone.

So the atmosphere at Murrayfield May be better than Hampden. What will it be like when there’s only 25,000 in it though?

If the SFA are able to buy Hampden, staying there should be the only option in my opinion. 

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13 hours ago, ShedTA said:

Fair enough and this is it. It's mostly about preferences and emotions not just cold hard common / monetary sense. Always will be i guess.

Not really just emotions.  Went to the egg chasing at Murrayfield once and from the front few rows couldn't see a thing, and that was at the side of the pitch.  Took forever to get out on the trans, despite taking a drink after the game as well.

I was back in the house 25 minutes after the Costa Rica game.  Ok, I live in East Kilbride, but nearly one and a half million people live in Greater Glasgow.

 

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As someone that used to live in East Lothian it would take 2.5hrs non stop travel to get home after a game at Hampden. That's cos I to walk back to the train station from the ground. Sure it's worse for some folk.

I went to the Qatar game for the novelty of it being (almost) on my doorstep. The issue is the days of the week the games are played on, especially if you're not taking a day off on match day. Rushing through after work and then back is a hassle. Appreciate a lot of people based around Glasgow attend but I don't think that would drop if they used Murrayfield / moved games around. Fact is it's closer to a train station that serves the whole of Scotland. 

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30 minutes ago, RightPeg said:

As someone that used to live in East Lothian it would take 2.5hrs non stop travel to get home after a game at Hampden. That's cos I to walk back to the train station from the ground. Sure it's worse for some folk.

I went to the Qatar game for the novelty of it being (almost) on my doorstep. The issue is the days of the week the games are played on, especially if you're not taking a day off on match day. Rushing through after work and then back is a hassle. Appreciate a lot of people based around Glasgow attend but I don't think that would drop if they used Murrayfield / moved games around. Fact is it's closer to a train station that serves the whole of Scotland. 

Mount Florida, Kings Park, Crosshill and Cathcart stations are all within a mile of Hampden, all go into Glasgow Central.  Hampden is one mile from the M74 at Polmadie.  

Haymarket is a mile from Murrayfield.  

The fact is that both are pretty well connected.  

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1 hour ago, adamntg said:

Mount Florida, Kings Park, Crosshill and Cathcart stations are all within a mile of Hampden, all go into Glasgow Central.  Hampden is one mile from the M74 at Polmadie.  

Haymarket is a mile from Murrayfield.  

The fact is that both are pretty well connected.  

and murrayfield has its own tram stop, I've used it a few times for rugby internationals with no complaints.

 

 

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On 4/2/2018 at 5:32 PM, Texas Pete said:

How much is upgrading lesser Hampden going to cost? Hee haw compared to what will need to be spent on Hampden I would reckon. 

I can’t see them doing much to the ground in the first couple of years to be honest. It will take time to get the money together. No doubt some corporate sponsorship would be involved with the east and west stands being renamed. 

Lesser Hampden had a massive make over for the commonwealth games (including a new club house and pitch) and while capacity wise its nowhere near big enough (even for Queens Park) it would certainly need a new stand or two, but hardly talking anything major.

With regards to Hampden, far to many people seem to think the documents will be signed on the Friday and bulldozers will be in on the Monday.

At the minute it would just be chucking money (we do not have....) at old rope, just to make Hampden appear better for the tv camera's on match day, and as long as the on the field product remains the way it is, and possibly go another 20 years without a major finals appearance, I honestly can not see the business sense on redeveloping Hampden for at least the next decade (I am not buying the whole "Field of Dreams" vibe that people are getting "if you build it they will come!")

As you said, in short terms we will probably see changes done that will get money in (is naming rights on the stands/stadium like what the SRU did), then we will probably see a slow slither of work carried out here and there over the next couple of years/decade (ie at best, a safe standing area added to the North West and North East corners for Cup games at club level, which will have no say what so ever on National Team games until FIFA change their stance) and the area around the stadium (ie see land sold off in the car park area for development).

Edited by wanderer
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3 hours ago, adamntg said:

Mount Florida, Kings Park, Crosshill and Cathcart stations are all within a mile of Hampden, all go into Glasgow Central.  Hampden is one mile from the M74 at Polmadie.  

Haymarket is a mile from Murrayfield.  

The fact is that both are pretty well connected.  

I've tried to get the train a few times but by the time you walk to the station, wait on it arriving and get to Central you're just as quick walking, imo. Then more trains leave from Queen Street anyway for Edinburgh unless I'm mistaken. 

If we stay at Hampden, which is definitely what will happen, then I'll still go to games. Like I said it wouldn't be an issue if the games were at reasonable times - make a day of it and you don't notice the travel. 

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4 hours ago, RightPeg said:

As someone that used to live in East Lothian it would take 2.5hrs non stop travel to get home after a game at Hampden. That's cos I to walk back to the train station from the ground. Sure it's worse for some folk.

I went to the Qatar game for the novelty of it being (almost) on my doorstep. The issue is the days of the week the games are played on, especially if you're not taking a day off on match day. Rushing through after work and then back is a hassle. Appreciate a lot of people based around Glasgow attend but I don't think that would drop if they used Murrayfield / moved games around. Fact is it's closer to a train station that serves the whole of Scotland. 

With the majority of games kicking off at 7.45 or 8pm it make no difference being closer as there won't be any trains at full time to take you back North.

Transport to and from Hampden to the city centre shouldn't be an issue with the amount of stations within walking distance but for some reason majority of people only think Mount Florida exists.

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I'm a traditionalist and would prefer to stay at Hampden.

But it is not just about the stadium. I've been attending matches there for over 25 years (less than many on here) and in all that time there has been no improvement in getting away quickly by train. And it doesn't matter if its a small crowd its just the same for 20,000 as 50,000.

After a big game at Wembley there are massive queues but they are constantly moving whereas you can wait ridiculous times at  Mount Florida. I appreciate there are other sevices on the line but why can't they have trains queing up after all the railway makes a lot of cash on a big match day.

And the coppers only let you use one entrance. You used to be able to walk  round to the side entrance and avoide the queue by using a bit  of initiative but now there are a couple of PCs sending you back round. Bit of a waste of police resources for a handful of people.

The SFA really ought to take the railwy to task on this.

Fair play to them for putting on free buses but I am guessing after a big game it would still take around an hour to get into the centre of Glasgow.

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5 hours ago, wanderer said:

Lesser Hampden had a massive make over for the commonwealth games (including a new club house and pitch) and while capacity wise its nowhere near big enough (even for Queens Park) it would certainly need a new stand or two, but hardly talking anything major.

With regards to Hampden, far to many people seem to think the documents will be signed on the Friday and bulldozers will be in on the Monday.

At the minute it would just be chucking money (we do not have....) at old rope, just to make Hampden appear better for the tv camera's on match day, and as long as the on the field product remains the way it is, and possibly go another 20 years without a major finals appearance, I honestly can not see the business sense on redeveloping Hampden for at least the next decade (I am not buying the whole "Field of Dreams" vibe that people are getting "if you build it they will come!")

As you said, in short terms we will probably see changes done that will get money in (is naming rights on the stands/stadium like what the SRU did), then we will probably see a slow slither of work carried out here and there over the next couple of years/decade (ie at best, a safe standing area added to the North West and North East corners for Cup games at club level, which will have no say what so ever on National Team games until FIFA change their stance) and the area around the stadium (ie see land sold off in the car park area for development).

I’m sure most folk with common sense realise any major changes to the stadium will take time, if they happen at all. 

In my opinion, Hampden really isn’t that bad in terms of view unless you are sat directly behind the goals in the first 10-20 rows. I’ve sat in pretty much every section over the years and most are ok. 

What Hampden isn’t great for is crowds of less than 25,000- 30,000. The place is like a morgue unless there is a decent crowd. All stadiums suffer from that to one degree or another but Hampden seems to be particularly bad for it. 

I am all for spending a good bit of money on improving the ground as long as the money used wasn’t already earmarked for grassroots development or something like that. If we can get enough money in by selling the name of a stand or half the car park or whatever then they can rip the east and west stands out and totally replace them as far as I’m concerned. Not sure how feasible that is though. 

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3 hours ago, Catchart Circle said:

I'm a traditionalist and would prefer to stay at Hampden.

But it is not just about the stadium. I've been attending matches there for over 25 years (less than many on here) and in all that time there has been no improvement in getting away quickly by train. And it doesn't matter if its a small crowd its just the same for 20,000 as 50,000.

After a big game at Wembley there are massive queues but they are constantly moving whereas you can wait ridiculous times at  Mount Florida. I appreciate there are other sevices on the line but why can't they have trains queing up after all the railway makes a lot of cash on a big match day.

And the coppers only let you use one entrance. You used to be able to walk  round to the side entrance and avoide the queue by using a bit  of initiative but now there are a couple of PCs sending you back round. Bit of a waste of police resources for a handful of people.

The SFA really ought to take the railwy to task on this.

Fair play to them for putting on free buses but I am guessing after a big game it would still take around an hour to get into the centre of Glasgow.

There are several other stations within walking distance. Mount Florida is always the busiest as it’s the closest to the ground. You’d be far better going to one of the other stations.

You can’t really compare the rail service in Glasgow with the London Underground or railway services down there. They have far more rolling stock and drivers than we have up here and can cope with huge crowds coming out of Wembley better than ScotRail can cope up here.

ScotRail already put on extra trains when events are on at Hampden with the network running at capacity so I’m not sure what else you would want them to do. 

Also, you’re complaining that it takes an hour to get into the city centre after a match. The trains are only every 20-30 minutes on that line normally at night and it takes about 10 minutes on the train. Unless you time it perfectly you’re probably talking about an average of 30 minutes to get from the stadium to the city centre at 9:30 at night even if there isn’t a game on. 

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On 04/04/2018 at 10:14 AM, adamntg said:

Not really just emotions.  Went to the egg chasing at Murrayfield once and from the front few rows couldn't see a thing, and that was at the side of the pitch.  Took forever to get out on the trans, despite taking a drink after the game as well.

I was back in the house 25 minutes after the Costa Rica game.  Ok, I live in East Kilbride, but nearly one and a half million people live in Greater Glasgow.

 

I was referring more to the need to keep and spend millions more on improving Hampden. It doesn't make much sense apart from emotionally.

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On 04/04/2018 at 10:14 AM, adamntg said:

Not really just emotions.  Went to the egg chasing at Murrayfield once and from the front few rows couldn't see a thing, and that was at the side of the pitch.  Took forever to get out on the trans, despite taking a drink after the game as well.

I was back in the house 25 minutes after the Costa Rica game.  Ok, I live in East Kilbride, but nearly one and a half million people live in Greater Glasgow.

 

And this can't really be a reason against murrayfield. What you experienced is what most fans not from Glasgow have to put up with every time they go to Hampden anyway.

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Well I think the debating is over.

All the rumours and reports suggest the SFA are taking over the ownership of Hampden and that rules out any move to Murrayfield. I cannot see the SFA having any large amounts of money to throw into refurbishing Hampden but perhaps help may come on that front from Glasgow City Council as they have made noises when it looked like the SFA may move. However, I won't hold my breath. I suppose another way money could be raised would be if a sponsor bought naming rights to Hampden and then that money could be used for a refurb. Time will tell.

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20 hours ago, RightPeg said:

I've tried to get the train a few times but by the time you walk to the station, wait on it arriving and get to Central you're just as quick walking, imo. Then more trains leave from Queen Street anyway for Edinburgh unless I'm mistaken. 

If we stay at Hampden, which is definitely what will happen, then I'll still go to games. Like I said it wouldn't be an issue if the games were at reasonable times - make a day of it and you don't notice the travel. 

Walk to Shawlands (15 mins) and straight on a 3, 38, 57 bus and at central within 10 minutes.

I live in Shawlands and after the Costa Rica game I was back in city centre to meet mates for 10.10., albeit a smaller crowd.

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1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Well I think the debating is over.

All the rumours and reports suggest the SFA are taking over the ownership of Hampden and that rules out any move to Murrayfield. I cannot see the SFA having any large amounts of money to throw into refurbishing Hampden but perhaps help may come on that front from Glasgow City Council as they have made noises when it looked like the SFA may move. However, I won't hold my breath. I suppose another way money could be raised would be if a sponsor bought naming rights to Hampden and then that money could be used for a refurb. Time will tell.

Talk is GCC are going to rent office space in the South Stand (there has been rumors for years that there is two floors in the south stand that have been sitting empty since construction was completed in 1999) and SFA hope to make some rent off of this.

GCC are not going to pump millions into Hampden, but will probably help out improving infrastructure and facilities around the ground, rather than anything inside the stadium.

SRU effectively cleared all their debt which has been a noose around their neck for the last 20 odd years just by selling the naming rights to Murrayfield, so would imagine we will see similar happening at Hampden (and I do not think the SFA are in debt anywhere near to what the SRU were for many years).

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I gave up trying to get on a train at Mount Florida after a game over a decade ago!  You just walk down to Cathcart and you get on the next train that arrives no bother!

I'm guessing there would be no major redevelopments until after Euro 2020?  If the SFA do indeed take ownership the obvious long term approach should be to do a similar upgrade to the Stuttgart stadium that someone post a few pages back!

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6 hours ago, kwhitelaw said:

I gave up trying to get on a train at Mount Florida after a game over a decade ago!  You just walk down to Cathcart and you get on the next train that arrives no bother!

I'm guessing there would be no major redevelopments until after Euro 2020?  If the SFA do indeed take ownership the obvious long term approach should be to do a similar upgrade to the Stuttgart stadium that someone post a few pages back!

Funny I would say up to Cathcart and down to Queens Park, I must be posher than you. On second thought maybe not were is Cathcart again?

 

Edited by ceudmilefailte
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