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SSC Renewals


slasher

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1 minute ago, Barney Rubble said:

Disagree because there is a system already in place and the rules are clear and easy to implement.

In any event, your hypothesis of finals tickets is up there with Dembele and Morelos ever attracting 40m and 10m respectively.

But if it turned out that the rules don’t suit a majority of the membets, those running it would need to be daft, archaic and set in their way not to consider changing it. Oh, it’s run by the sfa isn’t it?!

any you’re right about the finals being a bit pie in the sky but maybe one day...

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On 02/02/2018 at 8:13 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

Sorry but what sort of disposable income do you think is needed to get on the ladder at a high enough level to get a ticket for a competitive game? I don't understand how this can be argued. I work 37.5 hours a week and cant afford to go away twice a year to see friendlies just on the off chance I might get a ticket for a competitive game. Live in the Hebrides because that is were I was born the wife was born and were we decided was the best place to bring up our children.

Should probably have sacrificed all that for the chance to follow Scotland or worked harder in school  but what ever way you look at it I will never have any chance of a ticket based on the current system.

Work more then I work four days and do about 44-48 hours depending on where I need to go.

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23 hours ago, Rich NATA said:

(I haven't read all of this thread, but can someone post a list of recent matches, which have gone down to nil pointers?)

I went to do that but notice that the "old" SSC site has been taken down. That contained the info here: http://www.supporters.scottishfa.co.uk/points-table

Maybe this means the renewals process will finally be launched this week?

We've around seven weeks until the March friendlies. The SSC are not doing themselves any favours as I assume they'll initially need to turn around membership renewals before they can sell tickets. Unless our existing memberships will remain valid for an extended period.

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On Friday, February 02, 2018 at 8:13 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

I work 37.5 hours a week and cant afford to go away twice a year to see friendlies just on the off chance I might get a ticket for a competitive game.

So...

You would pay for the match ticket, flight and hotel for an away qualifier, but not an away friendly??

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

 

When the laughter at the back has finally died down, you'll realise that it will take more than a couple of away points to guarantee tickets to games in the finals. But then you may not have been around in 1998.

 

Barney ,they definately didn't have points for away games in 1998. Marjory told me the criteria  for getting W C finals  tickets was how long you had been a member of the Travel Club . Don't know when points table came.

Now if you live abroad iI know that's it's difficult to get to home games so it's only fair that you get an extra point for away games but surely the guys that leave work early on a Monday night and take 4 hours or more in the pissing rain to get to a home game deserve some sort of reward for their loyalty , 1 point .

You seem to favour two separate supporters clubs , one for those who go to home games only (obviously cheaper as you don't want  any points awarded) ,and a separate club for those who go to home  and away games (paying a bit extra because of the cost of administering away tickets) . Sounds like a logistical nightmare . 

Sorry Barney if I have picked you up wrong ,but I think supporting the team at home is just as important as away .

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33 minutes ago, Gala Tartan Army (Borders) said:

Barney ,they definately didn't have points for away games in 1998. Marjory told me the criteria  for getting W C finals  tickets was how long you had been a member of the Travel Club . Don't know when points table came.

Now if you live abroad iI know that's it's difficult to get to home games so it's only fair that you get an extra point for away games but surely the guys that leave work early on a Monday night and take 4 hours or more in the pissing rain to get to a home game deserve some sort of reward for their loyalty , 1 point .

You seem to favour two separate supporters clubs , one for those who go to home games only (obviously cheaper as you don't want  any points awarded) ,and a separate club for those who go to home  and away games (paying a bit extra because of the cost of administering away tickets) . Sounds like a logistical nightmare . 

Sorry Barney if I have picked you up wrong ,but I think supporting the team at home is just as important as away .

I think the interpretation of the discussions risks becoming twisted here.

For the avoidance of any confusion, the current system of awarding tickets for AWAY games has been in place for years and by the comments on this thread, works well enough. So why change it for AWAY games?

The HOME games question is entirely another matter. Do you folks think that Scots who are members of a putative Home Supporters Club should have exclusive access to tickets? What happens then to the unsold home tickets - of which England apart - there have been plenty this century? How will you make those available to the general public without compromising the membership of the HOME supporters club? Tell us how you foresee it working in practice, please.

And your first paragraph is correct about the introduction of the points system.

Oh - almost forgot - you are 100% correct with supporting the team at home is just as important as away. The fact is that it's a limited amount who are able to ATTEND all home and away games. And that is a different matter.

Edited by Barney Rubble
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If you are talking about the number of fans who attend away games only or live abroad what kind of numbers are we talking about here? I'd imagine the numbers involved are pretty small. Why not, as a caveat hold back a small number of tickets for zero pointers as I suggested. Unless I’m misunderstanding the whole debate here in which case, apologies. 

I should probably add that I don’t do home friendlies just competitive games and try to do 2 away games per campaign. That’s what I can afford.

Edited by slasher
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1 minute ago, slasher said:

If you are talking about the number of fans who attend away games only or live abroad what kind of numbers are we talking about here? I'd imagine the numbers involved are pretty small. Why not, as a caveat hold back a small number of tickets for zero pointers as I suggested. Unless I’m misunderstanding the whole debate here in which case, apologies. 

Nothing wrong with your interpretation or suggestion, but as others have pointed out, there have only been 3 away games in the last 10 (?) years where tickets have not been available to zero pointers.

Which suggests that there are a number of people on here whinging for no good reason other than they can't get themselves organised to get on the points ladder.

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2 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Nothing wrong with your interpretation or suggestion, but as others have pointed out, there have only been 3 away games in the last 10 (?) years where tickets have not been available to zero pointers.

Which suggests that there are a number of people on here whinging for no good reason other than they can't get themselves organised to get on the points ladder.

Yip it seems pretty pointless at the moment certainly. I doubt any of our upcoming games will see a ticket scramble and how many would we take to Qatar in the unlikely event we qualified?

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3 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

I get it - those who the system currently suits don’t want it changed, whereas those who don’t like it at the moment want it to be different.

forget whether it’s two or ten points that Mr never goes to hampden has, they still shouldn’t have any more right to a finals ticket than mrs goes to all the home games so the system needs to be changed in some way to accommodate both.

This

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Can someone remind us how many games were sold out in the last 10 years? About 3 for away, something similar for home?

For now i'd just comment, that if home and away are considered separate categories, then would there be merit in a loyalty scheme for home games so that those who attend regularly including unglamorous games and friendlies get 'points' for right to attend the big homes games when those are oversubscribed? It would reward people for attending some games  that could do with more support (e.g. 'unglamorous' qualifiers) rather than paying a premium via a membership or season ticket fee. 'Home-only' fans would then at least get some loyalty reward for turning up, and feel part of the system, and remove the perception of an 'elite', for starters.

Put another way, (and all assuming home and away are treated as different categories) why should someone who is able to build up points way from home be favoured, for oversubscribed home games, over someone who for whatever reason (income, family, work, etc) finds it difficult to get to away games, but regularly attends home games? By the same token, why should people be able to pay their way to attending select home games (via a membership or season ticket) rather than earning that right through home game attendance? Woouldn't it be better for that premium to be paid through the turnstiles with more fans in the ground? You might say, well some of us find it difficult to get to home games, but that could have the same answer ('tough!' 'rearrange your life!') as the case for away points for away games.

What if there was a system of home credits and away credits, and you could trade them?

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15 minutes ago, exile said:

Can someone remind us how many games were sold out in the last 10 years? About 3 for away, something similar for home?

For now i'd just comment, that if home and away are considered separate categories, then would there be merit in a loyalty scheme for home games so that those who attend regularly including unglamorous games and friendlies get 'points' for right to attend the big homes games when those are oversubscribed? It would reward people for attending some games  that could do with more support (e.g. 'unglamorous' qualifiers) rather than paying a premium via a membership or season ticket fee. 'Home-only' fans would then at least get some loyalty reward for turning up, and feel part of the system, and remove the perception of an 'elite', for starters.

Put another way, (and all assuming home and away are treated as different categories) why should someone who is able to build up points way from home be favoured, for oversubscribed home games, over someone who for whatever reason (income, family, work, etc) finds it difficult to get to away games, but regularly attends home games? By the same token, why should people be able to pay their way to attending select home games (via a membership or season ticket) rather than earning that right through home game attendance? Woouldn't it be better for that premium to be paid through the turnstiles with more fans in the ground? You might say, well some of us find it difficult to get to home games, but that could have the same answer ('tough!' 'rearrange your life!') as the case for away points for away games.

What if there was a system of home credits and away credits, and you could trade them?

Home games are never oversubscribed. If you are in the SSC you are guaranteed a ticket for Hampden games.

 

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5 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Home games are never oversubscribed. If you are in the SSC you are guaranteed a ticket for Hampden games.

 

But what if you are not in the SSC, for whatever reason, e.g. because you are not in a position to benefit from it?

In any case the point remains: why should people be allowed to get preferential treatment for home games (via SSC) by simply paying a membership fee, rather than paying through the turnstiles at home games? If the point is to reward 'loyalty' and attendance? (And if home and away are separate categories of game?)

It's a point of principle: if away games are earned through attending away games, why not the equivalent for home games? Otherwise, why not have an SSC 'away' season ticket, that you just get by paying for it?

Edited by exile
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Another thing while I'm here: I was remembering there were a couple of away games in London (Brazil and Nigeria) that could be considered relatively easy to get to even for those not normally able to attend away games. Those matches would gain points, right? But i think one of the problems mentioned earlier was that for those people who can only get to occasional away games, those points expire before you might have a chance to use them? So, what if the system allowed you to store up points for a longer period? Then loyal supporters whose life/cashflow situation don't allow a sustained record of away attendance could still build up points for a game of their choice? 

People are concerned about 'cherry picking' but why shouldn't a loyal supporter build up, say over 10 years, including distant or unglamorous friendlies, the right to attend one away match of their choice, as opposed to someone who is able to go to a burst of matches in a couple of seasons?

And that is all assuming home and away are separate categories. What if home games gained some sort of credit towards attending away games, whether you needed 2 home games or 5 or even 10 home games to get a whole away point. Surely that would serve to reward the home game attendees, help fill the old ground, and you'd be sure that those getting to those precious away game occasions were habitual supporters. 

On reflection, this issue seems to be about both fairly allocating tickets, and rewarding loyalty. Even if oversubscribed games are few, isn't there still a case for spreading around the way people can be 'rewarded' for attending different kinds of games - especially those where we could most do with additional support? 

Edited by exile
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On 02/02/2018 at 6:41 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

Far better way of doing things.

Regarding the old firm, is it the same sort of elite who always get tickets for away old firm games?

I don't know the details of how the Old Firm work it but yes regular attenders will get first dibs. Would be shocking if someone who goes to most home and away games misses out on an Old Firm derby to someone who never goes but fancies that match.

How would you feel if you had a season ticket at your club and went to a few away games a season to be told you're stuck in a ballot with everyone else for a cup final including people who haven't gone to a game that season.

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11 hours ago, exile said:

Another thing while I'm here: I was remembering there were a couple of away games in London (Brazil and Nigeria) that could be considered relatively easy to get to even for those not normally able to attend away games. Those matches would gain points, right? But i think one of the problems mentioned earlier was that for those people who can only get to occasional away games, those points expire before you might have a chance to use them? So, what if the system allowed you to store up points for a longer period? Then loyal supporters whose life/cashflow situation don't allow a sustained record of away attendance could still build up points for a game of their choice? 

People are concerned about 'cherry picking' but why shouldn't a loyal supporter build up, say over 10 years, including distant or unglamorous friendlies, the right to attend one away match of their choice, as opposed to someone who is able to go to a burst of matches in a couple of seasons?

And that is all assuming home and away are separate categories. What if home games gained some sort of credit towards attending away games, whether you needed 2 home games or 5 or even 10 home games to get a whole away point. Surely that would serve to reward the home game attendees, help fill the old ground, and you'd be sure that those getting to those precious away game occasions were habitual supporters. 

On reflection, this issue seems to be about both fairly allocating tickets, and rewarding loyalty. Even if oversubscribed games are few, isn't there still a case for spreading around the way people can be 'rewarded' for attending different kinds of games - especially those where we could most do with additional support? 

Sounds like the fairest option,

keep points system as is for majority of away tickets

one point for home game that do not expire and once you have ten you can get an away ticket. You then return to zero points.

this would not effect the high points holders in ladder but might hit lower points members. But as a common theme on here seems to be try harder.

probably enough home games to get one away ticket a campaign if ever present 

ten pointers and the likes also get the home game points and can in some way be adapted forr use in finals.

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7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Sounds like the fairest option,

keep points system as is for majority of away tickets

one point for home game that do not expire and once you have ten you can get an away ticket. You then return to zero points.

this would not effect the high points holders in ladder but might hit lower points members. But as a common theme on here seems to be try harder.

probably enough home games to get one away ticket a campaign if ever present 

ten pointers and the likes also get the home game points and can in some way be adapted forr use in finals.

Ten pointers shouldn't have to "adapt" or have to save up "home game points" for finals. If you have ten points you should be guaranteed tickets regardless of allocation, likewise for 9, 8, 7 and so on pointers till the allocation is gone. Johnny Come Latelys will clutch straw at anything to ensure that sense of entitlement

If you've not been to enough games in the last ten to qualify for a ticket to a game whether it's a friendly, qualifier or tournament finals game then that's "tough shit"

Edited by DoonTheSlope
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28 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Ten pointers shouldn't have to "adapt" or have to save up "home game points" for finals. If you have ten points you should be guaranteed tickets regardless of allocation, likewise for 9, 8, 7 and so on pointers till the allocation is gone. Johnny Come Latelys will clutch straw at anything to ensure that sense of entitlement

If you've not been to enough games in the last ten to qualify for a ticket to a game whether it's a friendly, qualifier or tournament finals game then that's "tough shit"

No Johnny come latelys would get a ticket it would just be a way of differentiating high points holders from other high points holders. What do you think of allowing home supporters the opportunity to get a ticket every couple of years ahead of low points holders?

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54 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Ten pointers shouldn't have to "adapt" or have to save up "home game points" for finals. If you have ten points you should be guaranteed tickets regardless of allocation, likewise for 9, 8, 7 and so on pointers till the allocation is gone. Johnny Come Latelys will clutch straw at anything to ensure that sense of entitlement

If you've not been to enough games in the last ten to qualify for a ticket to a game whether it's a friendly, qualifier or tournament finals game then that's "tough shit"

What do you mean by a Johnny Come Lately with a sense of entitlement? What's wrong with someone following Scotland at home for ten years to earn one game?  Or to be ahead in the queue to get a home ticket of choice, ahead of those with lower home attendance?

Edited by exile
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