Next Scotland Manager ?

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Why?   Same route taken with Roxburgh and Brown who were our most successful managers ever.  I'm not saying that Gemmill is necessarily the right man but neither would I rule it out completely. 

Brown and Roxburgh had quite alot of talented players when you look back. Players like McAllister,Collins,mccoist,mcstay, Johnston, Goram, Leighton, Gough, hendry, these guys would easily be first choice in our team now. We do have a wee crop of talent and decent players coming through so it isn't a complete lost cause but we defo had better players back then.

Edited January 28, 2018 by mccaughey85

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Craig Brown had 9 years managerial experience with Clyde and 7 years working with the u21s. Andy Roxburgh had 11 years experience working with the unders

Gemmil has been in coaching 5 minutes, achieving hee-haw into the bargain btw and now he's the favourite for the national job. The whole thing reeks. Jobs for boys

 

Clyde, really?

Gemmill has been coaching our younger players since 2014, What are the alternatives? Mcliesh? No thanks. 

 

 

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Brown and Roxburgh had quite alot of talented players when you look back. Players like McAllister,Collins,mccoist,mcstay, Johnston, Goram, Leighton, Gough, hendry, these guys would easily be first choice in our team now. We do have a wee crop of talent and decent players coming through so it isn't a complete lost cause but we defo had better players back then.

So?

Arguably Brown had lesser talents than Roxburgh did who similarly had less at his disposal than Stein and McLeod did.   And that's not to mention the players available in the 1960s when we did absolutely hee-haw.

At the time of their appointments both Roxburgh and Brown were derided for their lack of high level playing or managerial experience but both were the only managers to take us to consecutive finals. 

[DoonTheSlope]

10 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

Clyde, really?

Gemmill has been coaching our younger players since 2014, What are the alternatives? Mcliesh? No thanks. 

 

 

The alternatives are to show a bit of ambition and imagination and look abroad for a manager

[mccaughey85]

13 minutes ago, aaid said:

So?

Arguably Brown had lesser talents than Roxburgh did who similarly had less at his disposal than Stein and McLeod did.   And that's not to mention the players available in the 1960s when we did absolutely hee-haw.

At the time of their appointments both Roxburgh and Brown were derided for their lack of high level playing or managerial experience but both were the only managers to take us to consecutive finals. 

The point is gemmell doesn't have a gifted group of players to work with. This means we can't just hand the reigns onto somebody who has never properly managed at a decent level. It's a bit of crazy decision to hand it to gemmell imo and trying to justify it by citing brown and Roxburgh is not good enough, those two had players far above the quality we have now. Not too mention at that point in time we had qualified for the past five world cups and were considered a decent team with good players. We have qualified for hee haw in 20 years and need a real talented manager who has experience at a high level. Gemmell doesn't remotely tick those boxes. 

[DoonTheSlope]

Scot Gemmil hasn't done anything of note at coaching level 

[ProudScot]

Tbh if it was between Gemmill and McLeish I’d rather have Gemmill.

A better idea would be a foreign manager but the O’Neill failure shows we have no money or drive to really go and get someone.

Get Gemmill in on a one year rolling contract and can just see how he does this year with the friendlies and nations league matches. 

[PASTA Mick]

I think the idea situation would be an experienced manager with Gemmill as number 2 with a hope that he does well enough to take over in the future. The problem is that the options for an experienced manager are very limited. 

Smith and McLeish are yesterday's news and are not suitable for the modern game. 

[weekevie04]

I'd take Gemmill over McLeish.

[ProudScot]

23 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

I think the idea situation would be an experienced manager with Gemmill as number 2 with a hope that he does well enough to take over in the future. The problem is that the options for an experienced manager are very limited. 

Smith and McLeish are yesterday's news and are not suitable for the modern game. 

Agree about Smith and McLeish.

Lennon is an embarrassment also so all 3 very unsuitable.

Gemmill would be a better option than any of them. 

[exile]

2 things I didn't know about Scot Gemmill

1. "Scot Gemmill is a serial success story when it comes to qualifying. For the last four years, his Scotland Under-17 sides have reached their version of the European Championship finals and made the semi-final in the first of them. That impressive record has seen them rise to a ranking of fifth in Europe, .. " (Douglas Alexander in the S Times)

2. His name (Scotland) http://www.thefinalball.com/jogador.php?id=1395

[mccaughey85]

14 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Agree about Smith and McLeish.

Lennon is an embarrassment also so all 3 very unsuitable.

Gemmill would be a better option than any of them. 

Embarrassing is what we specialise in lol, surely those three fit the bill perfectly.

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, exile said:

2 things I didn't know about Scot Gemmill

1. "Scot Gemmill is a serial success story when it comes to qualifying. For the last four years, his Scotland Under-17 sides have reached their version of the European Championship finals and made the semi-final in the first of them. That impressive record has seen them rise to a ranking of fifth in Europe, .. " (Douglas Alexander in the S Times)

2. His name (Scotland) http://www.thefinalball.com/jogador.php?id=1395

That's a good record but at the end of the day it's u17s. If there's ppl like prandelli interested then surely we should look a little higher up the food chain.

[exile]

Just for fun. Imagine if we had football manager play-offs.

Version 1: Charity tournoi.

Take 4 contenders of your choice (say McLeish, Lennon, Bilic, Gemmill)

Pick teams from the squad (2 managers at a time, taking turns to pick players, televised)

4 play-offs, 2 semis and a final

Matches at say Pittodrie, MacDiarmid Park, East End Park, Falkirk, Firhill, Fir Park, Rugby Park, final at Hampden?

Final and/or all others could be cheap admission and /or proceeds to charity.

The winning manager gets the job!

Version 2: 4 friendlies

Take 4 contenders of your choice (say McLeish, Lennon, Bilic, Gemmill)

Draw lots, give each manager 1 game in upcoming friendlies

Whoever does best, get the job.

Or, any winner stays on...

 

 

[mccaughey85]

28 minutes ago, exile said:

Just for fun. Imagine if we had football manager play-offs.

Version 1: Charity tournoi.

Take 4 contenders of your choice (say McLeish, Lennon, Bilic, Gemmill)

Pick teams from the squad (2 managers at a time, taking turns to pick players, televised)

4 play-offs, 2 semis and a final

Matches at say Pittodrie, MacDiarmid Park, East End Park, Falkirk, Firhill, Fir Park, Rugby Park, final at Hampden?

Final and/or all others could be cheap admission and /or proceeds to charity.

The winning manager gets the job!

Version 2: 4 friendlies

Take 4 contenders of your choice (say McLeish, Lennon, Bilic, Gemmill)

Draw lots, give each manager 1 game in upcoming friendlies

Whoever does best, get the job.

Or, any winner stays on...

 

 

Sounds like a laugh but in reality I could never see guys like lennon, McLeish and bilic who have managed huge clubs and won things to be willing to go through such a difficult selection process in order to get a job that isn't that desirable. Gemmell might tha.

[AwayInAManger]

5 hours ago, ProudScot said:

A better idea would be a foreign manager but the O’Neill failure shows we have no money or drive to really go and get someone.

It may not be just the money or the drive etc.

When Michael O'Neill was appointed by the IFA it was after he did a brilliant interview - not just how much he wanted the job, but what his plans were, how he would do the job, what he needed etc. He was exceptionally well prepared.

There is no doubt he will have been the same with the Scotland job, which is why the SFA were so impressed at interview and went as far as they did financially.

But I have no doubt that the SFA were not prepared to concede to him the authority and autonomy he required, and enjoys with the IFA, hence his turning you down.

On which point, I strongly suspect that Malky Mackay was the sticking point. There was an interview in today's Sunday Times with the Chairman of Cardiff City, Mehmet Dalman. Included amongst the various topics discussed was this interesting aside:

 

Trust is there [between manager Neil Warnock and owner Vincent Tan] that did not exist between Tan and Mackay, whose transfer activities - which Tan is still unravelling four years on - underpinned his dismissal.

"It wasn't about the personalities. I think the media got that wrong," Dalman says. "It was about Mackay wanting all the glory and the power. He came with the view 'I'm untouchable, I got you promoted'. Whereas Vincent's view was 'Listen, it's my money, my club, everyone's touchable.'"

 

Any candidate of note, with a decent CV and of whatever nationality, is bound to be concerned in case he finds himself answerable to someone like Mackay.

Edited January 29, 2018 by AwayInAManger

[KirkieRobRoy]

10 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Just for fun. Imagine if we had football manager play-offs

Yes it would be fun. What we'd get would be some horrible SFA/Channel 4 tie-in called something like Celebs Go Scotland Manager Challenge! where the four contenders each manage a five-a-side team drawn from unrecognisable slappable reality 'celebrities' (Made in Chelsea, Essex, Celebs Go Dating etc). Manager of the team that finishes top of the group gets to manage Scotland. And to date some celeb you've never heard of with a face full of botox and a tattoo on her heid.

[Brummie Hibs]

1 hour ago, KirkieRobRoy said:

Yes it would be fun. What we'd get would be some horrible SFA/Channel 4 tie-in called something like Celebs Go Scotland Manager Challenge! where the four contenders each manage a five-a-side team drawn from unrecognisable slappable reality 'celebrities' (Made in Chelsea, Essex, Celebs Go Dating etc). Manager of the team that finishes top of the group gets to manage Scotland. And to date some celeb you've never heard of with a face full of botox and a tattoo on her heid.

Challenges to include:

The Half Time Challenge
Cut 11 oranges into quarters, brew a pot of tea and serve to the players. Follow this with a complete team deep-heat rub-down and a motivational team talk, all within 15 mins.

The winner of the round goes to the manager who can do this in the quickest time and demonstrate a tactical change in the second half. 10 points will be awarded to the winner.

3 extra bonus points for a win in the match and 1 for a draw.

The Media Challenge
Deflect as many press conference questions on tactics and team selections, while maintaining decorum and charm, all immediately after a sequence of defeats from ever decreasingly poor teams. The games start with Germany and work down the rankings until they get to Tonga.

The winner of the round goes to the manager who lasts the most defeats before giving either a sarcastic, smart-arse answer back, or walks out on the press conference. 10 points will be awarded to the winner.

The Old or New Balancing Challenge
The manager is presented with a series of Friendly games and a set of weighing scales. The object of the game is to place your old, trusted, has-been players on one side of the scale, and all the new, young, talented and hungry players on the other side. You as a manger need to keep that those scales balanced by avoiding the amount of the has-been from retiring from international football or alternatively avoiding the Republic of Ireland from poaching our youngsters because they were not called up. 

The winner of the round goes to the manager who can balance the scale the longest. 10 points will be awarded to the winner.

The Tic-tac Tactics Challenge
The manager is given 11 tic-tacs. The manager then needs to arrange these into as many different formations as possible in 5 minutes. After each formation, the manager has to shout out a team he will play these tactics against. The winner of the round will be the manager who comes up with as many different formations as possible. 10 points will be awarded to the winner.

At any point during the game, after creating a formation and announcing the team, you can play your Joker Card by shouting "Craig Levein!" If you win or draw that particular match, you will triple the number of bonus points you gained. If you lose that match, you will lose 15 bonus points, as well as your dignity.

3 points will be deducted for each duplicated formation. 3 extra bonus points for wins against each of the teams you got it right and 1 for a draw. 

 

Any more rounds?

 

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

12 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Sounds like a laugh but in reality I could never see guys like lennon, McLeish and bilic who have managed huge clubs and won things to be willing to go through such a difficult selection process in order to get a job that isn't that desirable. Gemmell might tha.

what has bilic won? what huge clubs, west ham????

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

14 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Agree about Smith and McLeish.

Lennon is an embarrassment also so all 3 very unsuitable.

Gemmill would be a better option than any of them. 

So you take gemmel who has no experience and won nothing over 3 managers who have vast knowledge and many trophies.

Its like the world is upside down on tamb!

No body seems to like managers who are successful in Scotland, who understand Scotland, everyone either wants a foreigner who knows nothing about us, i mean bilic come on, did well for croatia, but done nothing else, or whoever flavour of the day is, who in there right mind picks gemmel or mackay over smith,mcleish lennon!!!

[mccaughey85]

48 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

what has bilic won? what huge clubs, west ham????

Well the other two have and west ham is a pretty big club. He also managed Croatia which is a pretty big job as well.

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

yeah see you were saying they just wouldn't go through that process.

Slightly off topic, west ham are not a pretty big club, they are just a wealthy club from tv money.

Criteria for big clubs: Have to have won the league in the last 20 years. Won at least one European Trophy, CL, UC, CWC.

 

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

Just find it a bit depressing that no one can come up with an exceptional manager who makes a difference.  We didn;t produce many good players for about 10 years but fortunately that is changing with are extremely talented youngsters coming through.  However, we always produced great managers up here, so where are they all to take the top job?

Also only about 10% managers are actually any good and gain points for there team, ferguson, smith, conte, allegri (none of them are available though) the rest of the 90% are just a shot in the dark and hope the players make up for their incompetence.

My point is I guess just choose anyone cause its not going to make any difference, maybe choose no one and the let the players just play, would actually probably work better.

Thankfully we will have the players over the coming years.

[ceudmilefailte]

22 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Just find it a bit depressing that no one can come up with an exceptional manager who makes a difference.  We didn;t produce many good players for about 10 years but fortunately that is changing with are extremely talented youngsters coming through.  However, we always produced great managers up here, so where are they all to take the top job?

Also only about 10% managers are actually any good and gain points for there team, ferguson, smith, conte, allegri (none of them are available though) the rest of the 90% are just a shot in the dark and hope the players make up for their incompetence.

My point is I guess just choose anyone cause its not going to make any difference, maybe choose no one and the let the players just play, would actually probably work better.

Thankfully we will have the players over the coming years.

Worked in the second half in the Faroes a few years ago.

[Rude Gullit]

1 hour ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Just find it a bit depressing that no one can come up with an exceptional manager who makes a difference.  We didn;t produce many good players for about 10 years but fortunately that is changing with are extremely talented youngsters coming through.  However, we always produced great managers up here, so where are they all to take the top job?

Also only about 10% managers are actually any good and gain points for there team, ferguson, smith, conte, allegri (none of them are available though) the rest of the 90% are just a shot in the dark and hope the players make up for their incompetence.

My point is I guess just choose anyone cause its not going to make any difference, maybe choose no one and the let the players just play, would actually probably work better.

Thankfully we will have the players over the coming years.

Is it though? I agree the players coming through look like they have a core and good level of technical skill and game intelligence, along with an athletic mindset (shunning drink and crap food in an effort to make it to the top). However, all of that is commonplace across most European footballing nations. the bar is rising as fast if not faster than we're sorting out our shoddy and long-neglected shop.