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End of the Road for.....


Caledonian Craig

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So not unexpectedly Gordon Strachan is on his way. It is inevitable that some of the more senior players may call time on their Scotland careers seeing their last chance of qualifying for a major tournament disappearing. I will put these into categories:-

Likely:- Darren Fletcher, Steven Whittaker

Possible:- Scott Brown, James Morrison, Christophe Berra, Russell Martin.

Players who would probably replace them in the squad/team are younger options such as John McGinn, Callum McGregor, Oliver Burke and Liam Cooper

Thoughts?

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Fletcher retiring seems likely, as does Brown going again since he mainly came back because it was Strachan.
Other than that I don't think any will make themselves unavailable, tho yeah, you have to think that Whittaker's time is well gone (he's only had 3 caps in the last 3 years anyway). I hope Berra stays as Cooper is much more erratic than he is.

There's a lot of folk on the fringes for just about every position, so there's certainly the option to change things up a bit should the new coach want to do that.

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Fletcher and Whitaker have played their last games for Scotland barring some sort of injury crisis I think. 

Can’t see Brown returning either. 

We have young players coming through in midfield though and Griffiths is only 27. 

What concerns me is our central defence. 

Cooper is 26 and I’m not that impressed so far. Hopefully McCrorie will develop at Rangers or elsewhere but he’s probably a few years away from the Scotland first team. 

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1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

 

What concerns me is our central defence. 

Cooper is 26 and I’m not that impressed so far. Hopefully McCrorie will develop at Rangers or elsewhere but he’s probably a few years away from the Scotland first team. 

Central defence is the major worry. Berra and Mulgrew have done passably well in recent matches together but both are now into their 30s so we have to look to try younger options now (other than Hanley).

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IN terms of younger defenders, the main one who looks likely is Liam Lindsey. Moved down the the english championship in the summer and is now a regular starter there.

Berra and Mulgrew have done decently well. Certainly none of the calamities we saw with previous partnerships like Martin/Hanley or Caldwell/Berra. They seem steady now.

So with Hanley and Lindsey as young understudies, it's not all that bad. Still not enough depth, but then we're got to hope that players like Souttar (John and Harry), Ross McCrorie and David Bates mature over the next couple of years.

For the next couple of years that leaves us with:

1st choice: Berra, Mulgrew
Squad: Hanley, Lindsey, Martin, Cooper.
Prospects: H.Souttar, J.Souttar, D.Bates, R.McCrorie

It's not a disaster, but it does very much look like Berra and Mulgrew will have to see us thru the next campaign.

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10 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Understanding the concern about central defence, however, if Griffiths was to get injured I can't think of any forward (Young or Mature) who would match him for work rate and attitude.

It feels like our weakest position in terms of depth, that's for sure.

There's young guys around who could come on in the next year or so; May, Cummings, McBurnie, even Burke.

I guess the best hope for reassurance is.. we haven't seen Fletcher or Martin up front on their own with a decent midfield behind them. We've seen Griff like that, and he's benefited from it. So hopefully, the other two senior strikers can reap the benefits as well if they're called upon.

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1 hour ago, andyD said:

IN terms of younger defenders, the main one who looks likely is Liam Lindsey. Moved down the the english championship in the summer and is now a regular starter there.

Berra and Mulgrew have done decently well. Certainly none of the calamities we saw with previous partnerships like Martin/Hanley or Caldwell/Berra. They seem steady now.

So with Hanley and Lindsey as young understudies, it's not all that bad. Still not enough depth, but then we're got to hope that players like Souttar (John and Harry), Ross McCrorie and David Bates mature over the next couple of years.

For the next couple of years that leaves us with:

1st choice: Berra, Mulgrew
Squad: Hanley, Lindsey, Martin, Cooper.
Prospects: H.Souttar, J.Souttar, D.Bates, R.McCrorie

It's not a disaster, but it does very much look like Berra and Mulgrew will have to see us thru the next campaign.

Without going back and watching it again, can you tell us what Berra was doing at the time Slovenia scored their first goal?

 

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2 hours ago, andyD said:

Fletcher retiring seems likely, as does Brown going again since he mainly came back because it was Strachan.
Other than that I don't think any will make themselves unavailable, tho yeah, you have to think that Whittaker's time is well gone (he's only had 3 caps in the last 3 years anyway). I hope Berra stays as Cooper is much more erratic than he is.

There's a lot of folk on the fringes for just about every position, so there's certainly the option to change things up a bit should the new coach want to do that.

Brown came back back because we had two games against England. He wont be there for the Nations League.

 

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Not basing it on anything in particular, but I wouldn't be surprised if Allan McGregor called it a day. Hasn't really been first choice since Strachan came in. I know keepers can play until they're 40 etc but he might be fed up being second/third choice.

There doesn't appear to be an 'obvious' choice once Gordon, McGregor and Marshall are finished which worries me.

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14 minutes ago, Manno said:

Not basing it on anything in particular, but I wouldn't be surprised if Allan McGregor called it a day. Hasn't really been first choice since Strachan came in. I know keepers can play until they're 40 etc but he might be fed up being second/third choice.

There doesn't appear to be an 'obvious' choice once Gordon, McGregor and Marshall are finished which worries me.

Jordan Archer the obvious choice 

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14 hours ago, andyD said:

IN terms of younger defenders, the main one who looks likely is Liam Lindsey. Moved down the the english championship in the summer and is now a regular starter there.

Berra and Mulgrew have done decently well. Certainly none of the calamities we saw with previous partnerships like Martin/Hanley or Caldwell/Berra. They seem steady now.

So with Hanley and Lindsey as young understudies, it's not all that bad. Still not enough depth, but then we're got to hope that players like Souttar (John and Harry), Ross McCrorie and David Bates mature over the next couple of years.

For the next couple of years that leaves us with:

1st choice: Berra, Mulgrew
Squad: Hanley, Lindsey, Martin, Cooper.
Prospects: H.Souttar, J.Souttar, D.Bates, R.McCrorie

It's not a disaster, but it does very much look like Berra and Mulgrew will have to see us thru the next campaign.

David Bates won't get a Scotland cap.  Nowhere near international class.  He'll be lucky if he plays another game for Rangers.  Danny Wilson is ahead if him in both respects and also nowhere near good enough for either.

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14 hours ago, andyD said:

IN terms of younger defenders, the main one who looks likely is Liam Lindsey. Moved down the the english championship in the summer and is now a regular starter there.

Berra and Mulgrew have done decently well. Certainly none of the calamities we saw with previous partnerships like Martin/Hanley or Caldwell/Berra. They seem steady now.

So with Hanley and Lindsey as young understudies, it's not all that bad. Still not enough depth, but then we're got to hope that players like Souttar (John and Harry), Ross McCrorie and David Bates mature over the next couple of years.

For the next couple of years that leaves us with:

1st choice: Berra, Mulgrew
Squad: Hanley, Lindsey, Martin, Cooper.
Prospects: H.Souttar, J.Souttar, D.Bates, R.McCrorie

It's not a disaster, but it does very much look like Berra and Mulgrew will have to see us thru the next campaign.

Bates hahaha

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I'd definitely keep Brown, it's more a case of whether he wants to keep playing. Not convinced he'll be committed for another campaign.

Fletcher showed he's still our best passer of the ball, he just doesnt have the legs for it - and it's athlete's we are missing. McArthur, Morrison, Anya, Steven Fletcher, Chris Martin, Whitaker and Phillips can all be thanks for their service.

As others have said, I'm confident enough to drop any defenders yet because we are very thin. Hopefully a new manager can freshen things up here.

A lot of work needed on the first team - I wouldn't be waiting too long to make an appointment. Successor needs to get to work.

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I don't really see why our best midfielder in Brown should leave.

Agree with rest but Brown still has a lot to offer. Others won't be missed, Fletcher is finished at this level.

Agreed. If Brown makes himself available then he will be picked.

Fletcher was like Bambi on ice in Slovenia. Good career with us but his time is well up.

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I don't really see why our best midfielder in Brown should leave.

Agree with rest but Brown still has a lot to offer. Others won't be missed, Fletcher is finished at this level.

My original essence of the post is players who will (themselves) call it a day. Brown has already retired once remember and was coaxed out of retirement by Strachan. Brown's reaction to Strachan going yesterday on social media kind of backs up that he will think now is the time to go himself.

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With the Euro 2020 kind of being in Scotland, I can see some players staying on for the duration. If a manager thinks a player is good enough, he should play regardless of age. Never understood footballers retiring from international matches.

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Barring the mistakes, I thought Darren Fletcher played well in Slovenia, his best game for a while. But he must be getting to end of his days in the team.

Scott Brown is irreplaceable at the moment - he's vital for the momentum and improvement of the squad to continue.

As much/more for his leadership as for his ability

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