Mitre Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 50p each way on the McCoist/Cathro dream ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 McLeish and Smith were the best managers for us IMO. Unfortunately they are both turncoats who fecked off at the first opportunity. Hence why McLeish can gtf now. He left us for Birmingham FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: If you’re referring to me, I haven’t said Strachan has done better than Vogts because I don’t believe that. Strachan has done nothing for us. Vogts got us a playoff in a ridiculously easy group which is all we could really ask of him but he wasn’t a good manager for us. We drew in the Faroes and lost to Lithuania. We got second place in that group due to how crap our opponents were. Not how magnificent Berti Vogts was. If you weren’t referring to me then ignore the above. bang on the money. I actually had to look up who was in our group. Can't believe we struggled to get a play off with that level of opposition. How come we never get groups like that these days!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Parklife said: Are you serious? Vogts played loads (and i mean loads) of experimental friendlies to try and blood players and try things out. Give us percentages for competitive games, else your statistics mean hee haw. Here you go:- PLD 12 W 5 D 4 L 4 = Win percentage of 41.66% and that is bolstered by that group we got to play-offs out of. Vogts oversaw some of our darkest nights such as draws against Faroes and Moldova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: bang on the money. I actually had to look up who was in our group. Can't believe we struggled to get a play off with that level of opposition. How come we never get groups like that these days!! Because we have tumbled down the seeding pots. I think at that time we were in pot two but after Vogts left I think we were pot three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Here you go:- PLD 12 W 5 D 4 L 4 = Win percentage of 41.66% and that is bolstered by that group we got to play-offs out of. Vogts oversaw some of our darkest nights such as draws against Faroes and Moldova. What about Levein's without his friendlies? Vogts also some of our best nights. Like beating the Netherlands in the play-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Georgia were better than us? Behave. Ireland aren't a better side either. They've a far superior manager but certainly not good enough to be writing off 3rd place as being out our reach. No wonder we are a nation of footballing nobodies when so many are happy to accept failure. Georgia were better than us on the day as they beat us. Who’s accepting failure? I didn’t say third place was out of reach or acceptable I just said it was harder to achieve than second place in Berti’s group was as that was pish easy. Ireland are as good as, if not better, than us based on recent results, world ranking and qualifying for tournaments in the last few years. We should have got third place in that group based on how it went but everyone else took points off Germany and we didn’t and we made an erse of ourselves in Georgia. I doubt Berti would have done much better, if at all. I also think Strachan, Smith, McLeish and even Levein would have achieved second place in Berti’s group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 i genuinely can't believe folk are saying Vogts was better than McLeish. we're through the looking glass. getting us past that dross he had in the group. We had one flukey result against holland (fair play the boys played well that day), by the way the team wasn't that bad..plenty premiership and champions league players in there..no Paul Devlins of the beginning). That's about it. Forgetting the Faroes, Moldova, Wales when they were pish. Just because McLeish left under a bit of cloud seems to be clouding perceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Parklife said: What about Levein's without his friendlies? Vogts also some of our best nights. Like beating the Netherlands in the play-offs. Yes. Sure that was great but that was it. I don't think I have ever been as depressed as I was after that draw V Faroes and Moldova. disasters of epic proportions and who can forget him dropping Dailly in the crap on line TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, Parklife said: I wasn't. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: it's not really so amazing. an argument can be made for both. Vogts scraped us to a play off in a pishy group. McLeish and Smith nearly took us to a play off with the World champs, world cup runners up, world cup quarter finalists and one of those teams we always struggle with in the group. If you're going for what round he got us to sure. He got us one game closer to qualifying. I wouldn't call it significantly better. If McFadden had scored that sitter v Italy, was it play off we were going to or straight qualification? i can't actually remember! It may or may not been a pishy group, but he still had to build a team from scratch, a few of which ended up being the spine of the team for years and still did his day job of getting to the play offs at least. Apart from the campaign when we had Italy, France and Ukraine, almost every campaign should have given us a chance to qualify, including the last one, but nobody else managed it, cause somewhere along the like we choked against a Georgia or a Belarus or a Lithuania. Vogts had arguably the hardest Scotland job ever with arguably one of the worst and certainly inexperienced Scotland squads ever, but still got to the play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Parklife said: Vogts got us to the play-offs and beat a Holland team containing Van Nistelrooy, Davids, Van Der Vaart, Van Der Saar, Van Bronckhorst, Stam, De Boer, Overmars, Kluivert, etc. But aye, couldn't beat a fecking egg As has been pointed out ad infinitum as you know fine well, he qualified ahead of Iceland, Faroes Islands and Lithuania when they were three of the weakest teams in Europe, and he very nearly managed to fck it up, losing to Lithuania and scrambling a draw away to the Faroes. And then he got humped 6-0 in the Netherlands - did you forget that one? Or does that not fit your narrative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Here you go:- PLD 12 W 5 D 4 L 4 = Win percentage of 41.66% and that is bolstered by that group we got to play-offs out of. Vogts oversaw some of our darkest nights such as draws against Faroes and Moldova. A draw at home to Lithuania is IMO worst than drawing away to Faroes and Moldova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, The Black Bra said: Exactly how i feel. Why can’t we do what Iceland have done? Iceland beat Turkey 3-0 away from home and played 442. They have players who are equal to our own, ok some of them in the starting eleven play for "lesser" clubs but at least their getting game time. Hammerby, Bristol City, Aberdeen and Randers, but who are we to turn our noses up at anyone. Why are they better than us? Why are a country with 300,000 in the top 20 in fifa world rankings? Is it the manager? Better players? Players with more dedication? We should absolutely be doing what Iceland have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: It may or may not been a pishy group, but he still had to build a team from scratch, a few of which ended up being the spine of the team for years and still did his day job of getting to the play offs at least. Apart from the campaign when we had Italy, France and Ukraine, almost every campaign should have given us a chance to qualify, including the last one, but nobody else managed it, cause somewhere along the like we choked against a Georgia or a Belarus or a Lithuania. Vogts had arguably the hardest Scotland job ever with arguably one of the worst and certainly inexperienced Scotland squads ever, but still got to the play offs. Even in that era of 'building a team' our players were always better than the rest of that group's. No achievement to get 2nd. Any manager should have achieved that. I question slightly the building a team thing anyway. The players were obvious bar McFadden and Fletcher more or less. It wasn't our fault he was picking Warren Cummings. Looking at that team that beat Holland they are all premiership or champions league players more or less. Edited October 12, 2017 by PapofGlencoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: A draw at home to Lithuania is IMO worst than drawing away to Faroes and Moldova. Debateable. Lithuania are not bottom pot seeds like Faroes and Moldova were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: I think if Vogts was Scottish Adam wouldn't be as harsh. Those pesky foreigners. See you in court. I'd like a foreign manager this time. We've just sacked the best Scottish manager we could've had, the other candidates are all clowns, or worse, racist clowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Caledonian Craig said: Debateable. Lithuania are not bottom pot seeds like Faroes and Moldova were. And some of the Lithuanians are full-time professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, adamntg said: See you in court. I'd like a foreign manager this time. We've just sacked the best Scottish manager we could've had, the other candidates are all clowns, or worse, racist clowns. I'd like a foreign manager too. As far away from the Largs mafia as possible. Edited October 12, 2017 by Squirrelhumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 26 minutes ago, northernscum said: Anyone at the SFA got Billy Davies mobile number I wonder? The boy they sing about in the jungle book will do... Allegedly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwayInAManger Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, adamntg said: No, like Yorkshire. You're a comedian, I'll give you that - even if you obviously also have a complete lack of self-awareness. Anyhow, someone's just come up with another reason why Michael O'Neill wouldn't be interested: having to work with/under Malky Mackay (or some other Director of Football). No such role at the IFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossman4 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Suprised Klinsmann is not on any betting list I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossman4 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AwayInAManger said: You're a comedian, I'll give you that - even if you obviously also have a complete lack of self-awareness. Anyhow, someone's just come up with another reason why Michael O'Neill wouldn't be interested: having to work with/under Malky Mackay (or some other Director of Football). No such role at the IFA. He wouldn't be working under him, its a totally seperate role. Sorry edited to add, he does. Jim Magilton. Edited October 12, 2017 by bossman4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 53 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: You mean players Vogts brought through en masse like Faddy, Fletcher, Gordon etc? You mean the team that got to a play off? You mean the team that won the first leg against an outstanding Holland team? You mean the team that achieved more than either McLeish or SMith did as Scotland manager? I remember a Smith side totally shiting at home to Belarus and a McLeish side totally shiting it in Georgia costing us qualification. At least in a must win game Berti got us to the play offs. In spite of having much less to work with. Vogts was poor. anyone defending him can't have watched many matches when he was in charge. is Strachan a better manager? Vogts had much less to work with and the squad of players available to Strachan is far better than Vogts options so Strachan is probably not a better manager. But its like comparing a shuddering kick in the baws to a poker up the erse...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 we could have had Lars Lagerback at the time of Burley; we could have had him in Feb if the SFA had the baws to get rid of Strachan at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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