Texas Pete Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Strachan couldn't even get us in a play off when you got one by finishing 3rd! That’s true but we had 3 teams who were as good as us, if not better, to compete against in that group. In the group Berti got us a playoff from we had Germany, Iceland (who were crap at the time), Lithuania and the Faroes to compete with. I dare say even Strachan would have got us a playoff out of that group at that time. A good manager may even have won us the group since Berti managed to draw in the Faroes and lose in Lithuania. Edited October 12, 2017 by Texas Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 you need someone with a bit of pedigree for international football I think. Michael O'neill seems to be the out lier to the rule. Man management is key. Strachan did much better than some of the others in that front. His team stuck with him. He was just too stubborn to pick the right players and get the tactics right. Can't think of anyone at the moment that fits the bill. I would be inclined to give it to Tommy Wright but there's a good chance he couldn't handle Engish premiership players etc. There's got to be respect. Wee Gordon had that at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Texas Pete said: That’s true but we had 3-4 teams who were as good as us, if not better, to compete against in that group. In the group Berti got us a playoff from we had Germany, Iceland (who were crap at the time), Lithuania and the Faroes to compete with. I dare say even Strachan would have got us a playoff out of that group at that time. A good manager may even have won us the group since Berti managed to draw in the Faroes and lose in Lithuania. Who were these 4 teams who were better than us? How about finishing 4th in last campaign? Is that some sort of achievement? Strachan's negative approach cost us qualification. In Ireland, playing for a draw and then Georgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, PapofGlencoe said: you need someone with a bit of pedigree for international football I think. Michael O'neill seems to be the out lier to the rule. Man management is key. Strachan did much better than some of the others in that front. His team stuck with him. He was just too stubborn to pick the right players and get the tactics right. Can't think of anyone at the moment that fits the bill. I would be inclined to give it to Tommy Wright but there's a good chance he couldn't handle Engish premiership players etc. There's got to be respect. Wee Gordon had that at least. Aye, I can't wait to go to the 2018 World Cup in Respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 31 minutes ago, AwayInAManger said: What, like Scotland? No, like Yorkshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: Man management is key. Strachan did much better than some of the others in that front. His team stuck with him. He was just too stubborn to pick the right players and get the tactics right. Mmmm - isnt that the point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 57 minutes ago, Parklife said: They all done as well as Strachan. In Vogts' case, he done significantly better. It's amazing that so many people don't see that. People forget that Vogts had to completely build a team from scratch and yes, we did have some bad results, but he still got us to a play off, something nobody else has managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said: McLeish & Smith both inherited a team largely brought through by Berti Vogts Or alternatively, McLeish and Smith both succeeded with the same players that Berti couldn't beat an egg with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said: Mmmm - isnt that the point.. I'm not defending Strachan. He had to go because he made odd decisions. You'd be mad to not see that he had developed a squad that you saw very few call offs from though. Hope the manager maintains a good spirit alongside actually being able to make good tactical decisions! Edited October 12, 2017 by PapofGlencoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, adamntg said: Or alternatively, McLeish and Smith both succeeded with the same players that Berti couldn't beat an egg with. Vogts got us to the play-offs and beat a Holland team containing Van Nistelrooy, Davids, Van Der Vaart, Van Der Saar, Van Bronckhorst, Stam, De Boer, Overmars, Kluivert, etc. But aye, couldn't beat a fecking egg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Rampant Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said: My pick would Julian Nagelsmann from Hoffenheim but really can't see it, not only because it would cost but the fact we're shite Considering that he's going to be the Bayern manager next season, that's never happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, adamntg said: Or alternatively, McLeish and Smith both succeeded with the same players that Berti couldn't beat an egg with. You mean players Vogts brought through en masse like Faddy, Fletcher, Gordon etc? You mean the team that got to a play off? You mean the team that won the first leg against an outstanding Holland team? You mean the team that achieved more than either McLeish or SMith did as Scotland manager? I remember a Smith side totally shiting at home to Belarus and a McLeish side totally shiting it in Georgia costing us qualification. At least in a must win game Berti got us to the play offs. In spite of having much less to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Aye, I can't wait to go to the 2018 World Cup in Respect. eh? reading something into it that's beyond me there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Parklife said: Vogts got us to the play-offs and beat a Holland team containing Van Nistelrooy, Davids, Van Der Vaart, Van Der Saar, Van Bronckhorst, Stam, De Boer, Overmars, Kluivert, etc. But aye, couldn't beat a fecking egg I think if Vogts was Scottish Adam wouldn't be as harsh. Those pesky foreigners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Bra Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Now who do we get in? Remembering the SFA are doing the hiring then I fear it will be a cheap option without imagination. Someone like Moyes, McInnes, Mackay or Owen Coyle. Many fans (myself included) woulds prefer a foreign option but I can't see the SFA having the balls, the imagination or inclination to go down this route. Exactly how i feel. Why can’t we do what Iceland have done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Who were these 4 teams who were better than us? How about finishing 4th in last campaign? Is that some sort of achievement? Strachan's negative approach cost us qualification. In Ireland, playing for a draw and then Georgia. It’s the last campaign I’m talking about. I said 3-4 but changed it to 3. I could have left it at 4 as Georgia did appear to be better than us at times in Tbilisi and we didn’t exactly destroy them at Ibrox. The three teams were Germany, Poland and the Republic of Ireland. It was tougher to get third in that group than it was to get second in our Euro 2004 qualifiers in my opinion. It’s not easy to get 3rd place when there are three teams ranked higher you in the group. I’m no fan of Strachan and I’m glad he’s gone but Berti was a poor manager for us as well and getting a playoff in a walk in the park of a group doesn’t convince me of otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said: I think if Vogts was Scottish Adam wouldn't be as harsh. Those pesky foreigners. See when you examine the two starting line-ups, it's fecking staggering we beat them Scotland: Douglas, McNamara, Pressley, Wilkie, Naysmith, Fletcher, Dailly, Ferguson, McCann (Pearson 71), Dickov (Miller 66), McFadden (Hutchison 90). Subs not used: Gould, Graham Alexander, Caldwell, Crawford. Booked: McFadden, Dailly. Holland: Van der Sar, Ooijer, Stam, De Boer, Van Bronckhorst (Seedorf 45), Van der Meyde, Cocu, Davids (Van der Vaart 60), Overmars, Kluivert (Makaay 77), Van Nistelrooy. Subs not used: Waterreus, Zenden, Reiziger, Van Hooijdonk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Berti Vogts Scotland win percentage = 25.81% Walter Smith = 43.75% Alex McLeish = 70.00% George Burley = 21.43% Craig Levein = 41.67% Gordon Strachan = 47.50% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Caledonian Craig said: Berti Vogts Scotland win percentage = 25.81% Walter Smith = 43.75% Alex McLeish = 70.00% George Burley = 21.43% Craig Levein = 41.67% Gordon Strachan = 47.50% Are you serious? Vogts played loads (and i mean loads) of experimental friendlies to try and blood players and try things out. Give us percentages for competitive games, else your statistics mean hee haw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Anyone at the SFA got Billy Davies mobile number I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Texas Pete said: It’s the last campaign I’m talking about. I said 3-4 but changed it to 3. I could have left it at 4 as Georgia did appear to be better than us at times in Tbilisi and we didn’t exactly destroy them at Ibrox. The three teams were Germany, Poland and the Republic of Ireland. It was tougher to get third in that group than it was to get second in our Euro 2004 qualifiers in my opinion. It’s not easy to get 3rd place when there are three teams ranked higher you in the group. I’m no fan of Strachan and I’m glad he’s gone but Berti was a poor manager for us as well and getting a playoff in a walk in the park of a group doesn’t convince me of otherwise. Georgia were better than us? Behave. Ireland aren't a better side either. They've a far superior manager but certainly not good enough to be writing off 3rd place as being out our reach. No wonder we are a nation of footballing nobodies when so many are happy to accept failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: It's amazing that so many people don't see that. People forget that Vogts had to completely build a team from scratch and yes, we did have some bad results, but he still got us to a play off, something nobody else has managed. it's not really so amazing. an argument can be made for both. Vogts scraped us to a play off in a pishy group. McLeish and Smith nearly took us to a play off with the World champs, world cup runners up, world cup quarter finalists and one of those teams we always struggle with in the group. If you're going for what round he got us to sure. He got us one game closer to qualifying. I wouldn't call it significantly better. If McFadden had scored that sitter v Italy, was it play off we were going to or straight qualification? i can't actually remember! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Berti Vogts Scotland win percentage = 25.81% Walter Smith = 43.75% Alex McLeish = 70.00% George Burley = 21.43% Craig Levein = 41.67% Gordon Strachan = 47.50% Statistics mean fcuk all though in reality. Can paint any picture you want. Vogts played far more friendlies as he had a vastly new squad. McLeish only had a few games, Levein played likes of Faroes at home in friendlies! Only one got us to a play off, the guy with the least at his disposal yet likes of McLeish get lauded as heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Parklife said: Correct! And we have folk claiming that he done better than Vogts If you’re referring to me, I haven’t said Strachan has done better than Vogts because I don’t believe that. Strachan has done nothing for us. Vogts got us a playoff in a ridiculously easy group which is all we could really ask of him but he wasn’t a good manager for us. We drew in the Faroes and lost to Lithuania. We got second place in that group due to how crap our opponents were. Not how magnificent Berti Vogts was. If you weren’t referring to me then ignore the above. Edited October 12, 2017 by Texas Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Texas Pete said: If you’re referring to me, I haven’t said Strachan has done better than Vogts because I don’t believe that. I wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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