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Who Will Chuck It? Who Will Breakthrough?


McExpat

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One of the saddest things about examining the continuing failure is just the complete lack of any clear answers. 

We've got Strachan blaming genetics. On one hand it's bollocks because we know how tactically inept we were last night and how questionable the team selection was. We know how the Lithuania draw at home killed us. On the other hand, however, his point does at least have some relevance. Football is getting more athletic. If we are producing less and less quality players, then it's less to choose from - whether they are big, small or medium.

We've then got a debate about the English Championship and whether the players we've got there are good enough. Are we selling ourselves and our own SPL short? Again... there's no clear answers. These guys just haven't delivered for us. Even the guys that have been mainstays in some Premiership teams haven't delivered for us - Adam, Ritchie, Morrison, the list goes on.

Does it mean that the SPL players are going to be any better? Absolutely nothing to suggest so. Just look at where our exports from our league go. They're not turning into superstars. The seemingly brightest current talent in John McGinn would be widely expected to go to a Championship team rather than Premiership.

From my own club (St.Mirren) we had a 17 year old star kid (Kyle McAllister) sold to January last January for £250k. He was bought as a potential for their future. Nowhere near their first team but there's a view from English clubs that they see every passing year that a Scottish youngster remains at a Scottish club as hampering the youngster's development. The view is that the same level of intensity and professionalism just isn't there. 

One of the guys above was talking about throwing in the best of youth and getting them international experience for the long term benefit. Chris Gunter of Wales was the example - 28 year old / 82 caps to his name. Here's a guy that broke into a Cardiff team aged 17, caught the eye of Spurs and signed for them, then dropped back to the Championship with Forrest and Reading with only 1 more season in the Premiership. Doesn't seem that much of a world beater. But let's look at our own RB prospect - Calum Paterson. He has made his way to the same English Championship level 4 years older than Gunter was when he made his debut there. Who knows what the future holds for him. 

The success of Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland goes completely against the genetics debate and also the rubbishing of English Championship. 

So where do we stand? 

I think we're in a pretty unfortunate perfect storm of dwindling quality, poor management/tactics, and lack of professional leadership at the top of the SFA (i.e. not getting your first home qualifier sold out when you're looking to get off to a good start).

Despite all of that - we weren't far off in the end.

It shows that we just about managed to carry some of our mistakes - but just made too many in the end.

Just like most gave Strachan the benefit of the doubt on Thursday night. we've all reeled against him for his failure on Sunday. It's a results business.

It's fine margins but we need someone who makes less mistakes. That's about the only thing that we can try to control as a starting point. 

All we can do is roll the dice for a new manager again.  

 

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10 hours ago, fraz65 said:

Our best hope is ploughing the "granny rule" market and identifying a couple of English players not good enough to represent their own country.

This approach has served us well over the last ten years. If we could find a half decent central defender and striker from the Championship or lower Premiership it would make a huge difference. 

Aye it's been class. Landed us with sh1te like Philips and Martin!

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15 minutes ago, Fish Gills Mcginty said:

Daz Fletcher should go, he really wasn't good last night. 

Thought he played well- but couldn't mark the boy at their first goal and the miss from the half volley chance was unforgivable- has to go 

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1 hour ago, AlfieMoon said:

One of the saddest things about examining the continuing failure is just the complete lack of any clear answers. 

We've got Strachan blaming genetics. On one hand it's bollocks because we know how tactically inept we were last night and how questionable the team selection was. We know how the Lithuania draw at home killed us. On the other hand, however, his point does at least have some relevance. Football is getting more athletic. If we are producing less and less quality players, then it's less to choose from - whether they are big, small or medium.

We've then got a debate about the English Championship and whether the players we've got there are good enough. Are we selling ourselves and our own SPL short? Again... there's no clear answers. These guys just haven't delivered for us. Even the guys that have been mainstays in some Premiership teams haven't delivered for us - Adam, Ritchie, Morrison, the list goes on.

Does it mean that the SPL players are going to be any better? Absolutely nothing to suggest so. Just look at where our exports from our league go. They're not turning into superstars. The seemingly brightest current talent in John McGinn would be widely expected to go to a Championship team rather than Premiership.

From my own club (St.Mirren) we had a 17 year old star kid (Kyle McAllister) sold to January last January for £250k. He was bought as a potential for their future. Nowhere near their first team but there's a view from English clubs that they see every passing year that a Scottish youngster remains at a Scottish club as hampering the youngster's development. The view is that the same level of intensity and professionalism just isn't there. 

One of the guys above was talking about throwing in the best of youth and getting them international experience for the long term benefit. Chris Gunter of Wales was the example - 28 year old / 82 caps to his name. Here's a guy that broke into a Cardiff team aged 17, caught the eye of Spurs and signed for them, then dropped back to the Championship with Forrest and Reading with only 1 more season in the Premiership. Doesn't seem that much of a world beater. But let's look at our own RB prospect - Calum Paterson. He has made his way to the same English Championship level 4 years older than Gunter was when he made his debut there. Who knows what the future holds for him. 

The success of Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland goes completely against the genetics debate and also the rubbishing of English Championship. 

So where do we stand? 

I think we're in a pretty unfortunate perfect storm of dwindling quality, poor management/tactics, and lack of professional leadership at the top of the SFA (i.e. not getting your first home qualifier sold out when you're looking to get off to a good start).

Despite all of that - we weren't far off in the end.

It shows that we just about managed to carry some of our mistakes - but just made too many in the end.

Just like most gave Strachan the benefit of the doubt on Thursday night. we've all reeled against him for his failure on Sunday. It's a results business.

It's fine margins but we need someone who makes less mistakes. That's about the only thing that we can try to control as a starting point. 

All we can do is roll the dice for a new manager again.  

 

Hit the nail on the head really. Good post.

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11 hours ago, fraz65 said:

Our best hope is ploughing the "granny rule" market and identifying a couple of English players not good enough to represent their own country.

This approach has served us well over the last ten years. If we could find a half decent central defender and striker from the Championship or lower Premiership it would make a huge difference. 

 

10 hours ago, fraz65 said:

We should be investigating the family connections of every British player in the Premiership and Championship for any tenuous links that we can exploit. 

 

No thanks - I'd much rather watch a real scotland team with poor Scottish players than a pretended Scotland team with poor foreigners 

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41 minutes ago, Fish Gills Mcginty said:

Daz Fletcher should go, he really wasn't good last night. 

He was arguably our best player! 

He was certainly our best over the two matches. 

Fletch would be welcomed to stick it out, his passion, commitment and experience alone is an asset to the team and the squad as a whole.

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22 minutes ago, McExpat said:

He was arguably our best player! 

He was certainly our best over the two matches. 

Fletch would be welcomed to stick it out, his passion, commitment and experience alone is an asset to the team and the squad as a whole.

Lost his man for the goal, let people ghost past him, caught on the wrong side for another good chance in the second half.

Don't think he has the legs anymore for international football.

A failure

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25 minutes ago, McExpat said:

 

 

No thanks - I'd much rather watch a real scotland team with poor Scottish players than a pretended Scotland team with poor foreigners 

Me too.  Folk need to realise there are no "gems" to be unearthed, absolutely none.  Any good players are already in their own country's system and do we seriously want to sniff around the ones that they find out aren't up to it?  You just have to look at the sh1te that approach has brought us so far.  Phillips - "pace and power"?  Is that another term for being as fkin slow as a week in Barlinnie and sh1ting out of tackles in case he can't play for his club next week?  Get him and the other CV hoors to fck.

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8 hours ago, JECK said:

Complete and utter nonsense. all failures every last one of them. They just can't produce when it matters. I knew straight away watching Phillips he wasn't good enough to compete again Slovakia /Slovenia. Morrison has been at West Brom all these years for a reason - because that's his level, try not and relegated, dross. No winning mentality. 

Who do we have playing at a higher level than West Brom? 

Did Chris Martin not produce when it mattered?

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4 hours ago, McExpat said:

 

 

No thanks - I'd much rather watch a real scotland team with poor Scottish players than a pretended Scotland team with poor foreigners 

We all would but we don't produce the players unfortunately. 

Wales would have been nowhere near the Euros without the nine non-Welsh born players in their 2016 squad. 

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3 minutes ago, McExpat said:

With Strachan gone, I think the likelihood of a few chucking it has increased, Brown in particular isn't happy with the decision to let Strachan go and indicates that many others share his  sentiments.

Good. He can get to feck then. If he liked Strachan that much maybe he shouldn't have quite the first time and then we'd maybe be in the play-offs. 

Seems he's not content with being an absolute whank on the pitch, he also has to be one off it. 

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Some players who will come through in the next campaign are Gauld, Barrie McKay,Calum Paterson and olly Burke.

Scotlands main problem position is Centre back. The new guy should scout the planet for centre backs with Scottish grannies as this is our key problem area which needs to be addressed immediately.

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It’d be staggering that Liam Lindsay has never received a call up, if our ex-manager wasn’t a blinkered feckwit. 

Id get him called up for the Netherlands game. I’d also expect Souttar and McKenna to get chances, if they keep playing well. 

We cant just expect centre backs to magically appear, we have to nurture our best young ones. 

Edited by Parklife
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1 hour ago, Parklife said:

It’d be staggering that Liam Lindsay has never received a call up, if our ex-manager wasn’t a blinkered feckwit. 

Id get him called up for the Netherlands game. I’d also expect Souttar and McKenna to get chances, if they keep playing well. 

We cant just expect centre backs to magically appear, we have to nurture our best young ones. 

Agree. Get all 3 of them in the squad for next month. 

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7 hours ago, Parklife said:

It’d be staggering that Liam Lindsay has never received a call up, if our ex-manager wasn’t a blinkered feckwit. 

Id get him called up for the Netherlands game. I’d also expect Souttar and McKenna to get chances, if they keep playing well. 

We cant just expect centre backs to magically appear, we have to nurture our best young ones. 

Well said. Moaning about having no CBs while not giving the ones we do have a chance.

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Not sure John Souttar is ready yet although the difference in the last six months in tremendous, learning off two experienced international centre halves Berra and Hughes. More and more confident with the ball at his feet and was even taking the corners on Saturday (and putting in better balls than Walker and Cowie have all season)

From speaking to Craig Levein yesterday he is raving about the youth programme at Hearts and how it is back on track now. Also great to see teenagers Cochrane, Henderson and Brandon having such a positive impact on Saturday. 

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8 hours ago, hannibal smith said:

Not sure John Souttar is ready yet although the difference in the last six months in tremendous, learning off two experienced international centre halves Berra and Hughes. More and more confident with the ball at his feet and was even taking the corners on Saturday (and putting in better balls than Walker and Cowie have all season)

Souttars ability with the ball at his feet has never been in question, he looked a natural from day one at United and could waltz his way out of defence, he even played in midfield and looked great. It was always his actual job as a centre half he looked suspect, so that’s good he is learning that aspect. Got to be hopeful he’ll be good enough one day.

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18 hours ago, Paulo2576 said:

Souttars ability with the ball at his feet has never been in question, he looked a natural from day one at United and could waltz his way out of defence, he even played in midfield and looked great. It was always his actual job as a centre half he looked suspect, so that’s good he is learning that aspect. Got to be hopeful he’ll be good enough one day.

I still wonder if he'll end up in midfield. He may have to if he has ambitions to play in the EPL. His ability on the ball is excellent.

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Tam McManus reckons Dylan McGeough should be in the squad. Haven't seen too much of Hibs yet but wouldn't have thought a couple of good games is enough to merit a place ahead of some players who have been performing consistently at that level for a lot longer?

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