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So i'm pretty puzzled how it can bring in so much money for the local area while being an absolute financial black hole for the owner. As much as "the boy doon the pub telt me" has advanced the collective knowledge base of our species. I think i'll put a wee bit more faith in the published accounts regardless of how good the course actually is.

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35 minutes ago, phart said:

So i'm pretty puzzled how it can bring in so much money for the local area while being an absolute financial black hole for the owner. As much as "the boy doon the pub telt me" has advanced the collective knowledge base of our species. I think i'll put a wee bit more faith in the published accounts regardless of how good the course actually is.

I would suggest that because when people travel from all over the world to play it, they also play other courses up and down the Aberdeenshire coast. 

Murcar, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay to name but a few.  All highly respected courses in Scotland, money goes to them, they have to stay somewhere, money goes to hotels, they have to eat, money goes to local restaurants and coffee houses etc etc etc. 

I’ve seen and spoken to yanks, japs, the lot at my course which is about 20 minutes away from trump. It’s a municipal course, they simply turn up, pay their £15 and off they go for a game of golf. 

I can see why people don’t want to see this as it’s against the agenda, but it’s simply factual, people that don’t play golf won’t understand it, but others know exactly what having a course like that is doing for the city. 

I honestly don’t know if the place is haemerroging money, I don’t really care, it’s his money after all, I can’t see where anyone has said it’s profitable for him to be here, but for many parts of the city and shire, it is. 

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54 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

I would suggest that because when people travel from all over the world to play it, they also play other courses up and down the Aberdeenshire coast. 

Murcar, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay to name but a few.  All highly respected courses in Scotland, money goes to them, they have to stay somewhere, money goes to hotels, they have to eat, money goes to local restaurants and coffee houses etc etc etc. 

I’ve seen and spoken to yanks, japs, the lot at my course which is about 20 minutes away from trump. It’s a municipal course, they simply turn up, pay their £15 and off they go for a game of golf. 

I can see why people don’t want to see this as it’s against the agenda, but it’s simply factual, people that don’t play golf won’t understand it, but others know exactly what having a course like that is doing for the city. 

I honestly don’t know if the place is haemerroging money, I don’t really care, it’s his money after all, I can’t see where anyone has said it’s profitable for him to be here, but for many parts of the city and shire, it is. 

You've been provided with the actual accounts, yet still don't know if it's "haemerroging (sic) money".

You can lead a horse to water...

There's the problem identified right there.

You've conflated my point with Lamia's in the post above. I would try and delineate our arguments for you but considering what you've just admitted above it would be empty labour by me.

The suggestion is that while Trump runs at a £1.5 million a year loss, it attracts loads of folk not to Trumps but the area and that brings in lots of money. They go cause of Trump but don't go to Trumps?They go to Trumps and other places, the other places all profit but trump is a black-hole.

I'm beginning to lose the thread of this reasoning.

 

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Local councillor Isobel Davidson said there was no evidence in the short term of Trump creating 6,000 jobs.

“It might happen in the long term,” she said, speaking from her office in Aberdeenshire. “There are far more rooms available [in Aberdeenshire hotels] than there were five years ago.”

Local councillor claiming hotels are less busy.

The leader of Aberdeenshire Council, Jim Gifford, who has always supported the development, said it was not worth the environmental trade off.

"For what is only there just now - no - because the economic benefit hasn't come through," he said. "But in the big picture that was put in front of us 10 years ago, it was worth doing."

Edited by phart
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12 minutes ago, phart said:

You've been provided with the actual accounts, yet still don't know if it's "haemerroging (sic) money".

You can lead a horse to water...

There's the problem identified right there.

You've conflated my point with Lamia's in the post above. I would try and delineate our arguments for you but considering what you've just admitted above it would be empty labour by me.

The suggestion is that while Trump runs at a £1.5 million a year loss, it attracts loads of folk not to Trumps but the area and that brings in lots of money. They go cause of Trump but don't go to Trumps?They go to Trumps and other places, the other places all profit but trump is a black-hole.

I'm beginning to lose the thread of this reasoning.

 

Right underneath the part you have in bold, is the part where I said I don’t care if he’s losing money. It clearly isn’t making profit, that’s never been the debate, it was is trump good for Aberdeen, with the answer being yes, it is, even if he’s losing money, other people aren’t, they’re making money, I have absolutely no idea what part of that you don’t understand. 

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3 minutes ago, phart said:

Local councillor Isobel Davidson said there was no evidence in the short term of Trump creating 6,000 jobs.

“It might happen in the long term,” she said, speaking from her office in Aberdeenshire. “There are far more rooms available [in Aberdeenshire hotels] than there were five years ago.”

Local councillor claiming hotels are less busy.

The leader of Aberdeenshire Council, Jim Gifford, who has always supported the development, said it was not worth the environmental trade off.

"For what is only there just now - no - because the economic benefit hasn't come through," he said. "But in the big picture that was put in front of us 10 years ago, it was worth doing."

Probably because people don’t want to stay in the shire when the city is 20 minutes away. 

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1 minute ago, dandydunn said:

Right underneath the part you have in bold, is the part where I said I don’t care if he’s losing money. It clearly isn’t making profit, that’s never been the debate, it was is trump good for Aberdeen, with the answer being yes, it is, even if he’s losing money, other people aren’t, they’re making money, I have absolutely no idea what part of that you don’t understand. 

I understand it. I just don't understand why you think it is the case. The council cheerleader for the course has stated it " the economic benefit hasn't come through, "

I'm not asking for your answer i'm asking to see your working.

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10 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

Probably because people don’t want to stay in the shire when the city is 20 minutes away. 

Yet i can get a hotel room in aberdeen no bother too.

You've not put much thought into why you think this have you?

The implication being Aberdeenshire should bear the cost of having the half finished resort, environmental problems, science problems, cause Aberdeen gets more money and i get to play golf. Sounds a shitty way to administrate a society.

You haven't addressed the second point though.

 

 

Edited by phart
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9 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

Right underneath the part you have in bold, is the part where I said I don’t care if he’s losing money. It clearly isn’t making profit, that’s never been the debate, it was is trump good for Aberdeen, with the answer being yes, it is, even if he’s losing money, other people aren’t, they’re making money, I have absolutely no idea what part of that you don’t understand. 

Who is "they" in this context do these people have names? Do they exist?

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So because he said the economical benefit hasn’t come through, you’re using that as an example of everyone in Aberdeen?

You’re stating that I have nothing but my word to back up what I’m saying, yet post words from someone that hasn’t looked into the figures of the golf clubs I’ve mentioned? That just seems silly to me. 

Im out :ok:

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1 minute ago, dandydunn said:

So because he said the economical benefit hasn’t come through, you’re using that as an example of everyone in Aberdeen?

You’re stating that I have nothing but my word to back up what I’m saying, yet post words from someone that hasn’t looked into the figures of the golf clubs I’ve mentioned? That just seems silly to me. 

Im out :ok:

Well he is head of the council which everyone votes in as their representative. So he can't speak for everyone (that'd be daft and not what i suggested) but out of anyone they're the head of the representative local government, so it carries more weight than say you, who can only speak for yourself.

Great i've been looking to get those figures myself, can you post them please since you'll have read them since your giving the council head a hard time for not reading them. I've been unable to access any of the accounts murcarlinks being the primary one, i spent 30 mins tonight looking for them to see if i could evidence your claim. Although as aside a couple of golf courses making a larger profit is hardly an economic boost to the area, and not a fair trade for the loss to science from the dunes being damaged. Let's reduce our collective scientific knowledge so a few golf courses can make a few more quid, that'll positively impact society.

Ack well if you're out no worries on the accounts etc. I'm sure we both have much more important things to get on with :D

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1 hour ago, phart said:

You've been provided with the actual accounts, yet still don't know if it's "haemerroging (sic) money".

You can lead a horse to water...

There's the problem identified right there.

You've conflated my point with Lamia's in the post above. I would try and delineate our arguments for you but considering what you've just admitted above it would be empty labour by me.

The suggestion is that while Trump runs at a £1.5 million a year loss, it attracts loads of folk not to Trumps but the area and that brings in lots of money. They go cause of Trump but don't go to Trumps?They go to Trumps and other places, the other places all profit but trump is a black-hole.

 

 

Maybe they go because of the other courses and nothing to do with Trump. 

But of course the caste iron evidence of "someone told me this...." and someone else told me that..." clearly proves they come solely because of Trump.

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20 minutes ago, phart said:

Well he is head of the council which everyone votes in as their representative. So he can't speak for everyone (that'd be daft and not what i suggested) but out of anyone they're the head of the representative local government, so it carries more weight than say you, who can only speak for yourself.

Great i've been looking to get those figures myself, can you post them please since you'll have read them since your giving the council head a hard time for not reading them. I've been unable to access any of the accounts murcarlinks being the primary one, i spent 30 mins tonight looking for them to see if i could evidence your claim. Although as aside a couple of golf courses making a larger profit is hardly an economic boost to the area, and not a fair trade for the loss to science from the dunes being damaged. Let's reduce our collective scientific knowledge so a few golf courses can make a few more quid, that'll positively impact society.

Ack well if you're out no worries on the accounts etc. I'm sure we both have much more important things to get on with :D

We certainly do, I’m currently discussing on one of the Facebook pages about how 1 guy thinks Hampden is a joke because he can’t get a train home in time for a pint at night and it’s the sfa’s fault that they don’t lay on anymore for him. 

Until we discuss again, I bid you farewell :ok:

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11 hours ago, phart said:

Local councillor Isobel Davidson said there was no evidence in the short term of Trump creating 6,000 jobs.

“It might happen in the long term,” she said, speaking from her office in Aberdeenshire. “There are far more rooms available [in Aberdeenshire hotels] than there were five years ago.”

Local councillor claiming hotels are less busy.

The leader of Aberdeenshire Council, Jim Gifford, who has always supported the development, said it was not worth the environmental trade off.

"For what is only there just now - no - because the economic benefit hasn't come through," he said. "But in the big picture that was put in front of us 10 years ago, it was worth doing."

Folk going on about hotel availability as some sort of barometer is daft too. Arse has collapsed out the oil industry.

She's comparing apples with pears.

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4 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Folk going on about hotel availability as some sort of barometer is daft too. Arse has collapsed out the oil industry.

She's comparing apples with pears.

I only brought up the hotels cause others did earlier in the thread. I didn't note an objection at the time so used I assumed it was OK. Now it's Apples and Pears no one can use it.

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5 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Bit like your posts on the subject.

You've backed up none of your posts. I hate Trump but I don't let it blind my judgement on everything connected to him.

To say that his course hasn't had a massive impact in tourism in the area is just silly.

 

I've spent time trying to evidence that, clearly you already have, can you pass that evidence on please.

Since we're talking about backing up posts as well.

Cheers in advance :D

Trumps golf course was given a £110,000 tax rebate so mind and deduct that from any profits into the area as well. Or the £1.7 million corporation tax non-payment.

I found out about the above after the posting last night as i kept researching. Yet the weird thing is the Scottish government had to operate a rebate service for the whole of Scotland with North East being the worst cause the area was suffering so badly.

 

The Scottish rebate was announced in February after hoteliers and restaurant owners complained about a rise in property taxes of up to 400% that came into force this year. The complaints were most intense in north-east Scotland, a region hit hard by a slump in oil prices.

Only available to firms in the hospitality sector, the rebate was put into effect Scotland-wide, and included companies making profits or those unaffected by the economic downturn.

Edited by phart
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1 hour ago, phart said:

I've spent time trying to evidence that, clearly you already have, can you pass that evidence on please.

Since we're talking about backing up posts as well.

Cheers in advance :D

Trumps golf course was given a £110,000 tax rebate so mind and deduct that from any profits into the area as well. Or the £1.7 million corporation tax non-payment.

I found out about the above after the posting last night as i kept researching. Yet the weird thing is the Scottish government had to operate a rebate service for the whole of Scotland with North East being the worst cause the area was suffering so badly.

 

The Scottish rebate was announced in February after hoteliers and restaurant owners complained about a rise in property taxes of up to 400% that came into force this year. The complaints were most intense in north-east Scotland, a region hit hard by a slump in oil prices.

Only available to firms in the hospitality sector, the rebate was put into effect Scotland-wide, and included companies making profits or those unaffected by the economic downturn.

So other golf clubs in area saying they've had a spike in visitor numbers is just by pure chance?

Add that onto the numbers playing Trump itself then I'd say it's safe to say the number of folk visiting the area is up significantly.

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2 hours ago, phart said:

I've spent time trying to evidence that, clearly you already have, can you pass that evidence on please.

Since we're talking about backing up posts as well.

Cheers in advance :D

Trumps golf course was given a £110,000 tax rebate so mind and deduct that from any profits into the area as well. Or the £1.7 million corporation tax non-payment.

I found out about the above after the posting last night as i kept researching. Yet the weird thing is the Scottish government had to operate a rebate service for the whole of Scotland with North East being the worst cause the area was suffering so badly.

 

The Scottish rebate was announced in February after hoteliers and restaurant owners complained about a rise in property taxes of up to 400% that came into force this year. The complaints were most intense in north-east Scotland, a region hit hard by a slump in oil prices.

Only available to firms in the hospitality sector, the rebate was put into effect Scotland-wide, and included companies making profits or those unaffected by the economic downturn.

Would the c.£6M in construction fees be partly to blame for the current negative accounts?  Also, it's a course with very few members that I imagine would have been planning to rely heavily on corporate membership and corporate entertainment.  Given the collapse of local industry, there's very little corporate spend in these areas. 

Anyway, we digress.  I completely agree with Lamia and yourself that the arguments in favour of Trump Int supporting local businesses so far on here are anecdotal.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time (or know how) to collect accounts from all benefiting enterprises. I will, however, try and obtain RAGC accounts in order to at least compare RAGC visitor fees pre and post Trump Int. Me successful posting this will be another challenge altogether - you may have to rely on me producing a transcript.

Probably worth pointing out that Trump International has applied for planning to build a second course.  They clearly see some longer term benefit?

Lastly, we shouldn't discount the £000's paid in legal fees to local law firms to get this course built!  (That is a tongue in cheek comment.) 

Edited by SMcoolJ
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2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

So other golf clubs in area saying they've had a spike in visitor numbers is just by pure chance?

Add that onto the numbers playing Trump itself then I'd say it's safe to say the number of folk visiting the area is up significantly.

I have no idea. That's why i'm asking you for the information that informs your view.

How is it safe to say? You've just chastised Lamia " You've backed up none of your posts " then proceeded to do the exact same thing. and will get angry at me for your failing.

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