The final World Cup game at Hampden?

[AwayInAManger]

On 05/10/2017 at 3:45 PM, Caledonian Craig said:

And United Kingdom is a laugh as approaching half of Scotland wants independence, a large portion of people in Northern Ireland favour re-unification with the south and even the Welsh are far from happy bunnies. What's united about that?

The majority of people in England want to stay in the UK.

The majority of people in Scotland want to stay in the UK.

The majority of people in Wales want to stay in the UK.

And the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK.

Of course you'll never please everyone in every situation - an independent Scotland would also be divided on many things - but Democracy requires that you respect the wishes of the majority.

And as Churchill liked to say, Democracy is the worst form of Government imaginable, except all the others.

Which brings me back to the subject in hand. Having myself been to Hampden a good few times now for internationals, I'd say it's the worst venue for Scotland - bar all the available alternatives.

More specifically, whilst a poor stadium design can be unconducive to a good atmosphere etc, in the end, it is the fans who make the atmosphere, not the stadium. In which case, many of the problems attributed to Hampden would be dissipated if/when you get the team performing again.

And I know I'm an "away" supporter (NI), so it's none of my business, but had I a vote on it, I'd opt to stay there.

[shaggycoo]

On 10/5/2017 at 6:38 PM, blue_knight said:

The train station at mount florida. Always have memories of standing in the pishing rain for ages while someone on a horse tells us to behave so  started walking home to town instead

That is why you take the extra 5 mins and walk to Cathcart station and get straight on the train with no queuing 

[Parklife]

7 hours ago, AwayInAManger said:

And as Churchill liked to say, Democracy is the worst form of Government imaginable, except all the others.

He also said "lets test chemical weapons against those uncivilised brown people" (slight paraphrasing), so i tend to ignore every single thing that odious individual every said. 

[Lion Rampant]

On 06/10/2017 at 5:45 PM, Shotts56 said:

Plenty of other much quieter train stations close to Hampden.  It’s not Hampden’s fault people choose to stand in a huge queue at the closest station rather than walking to Kings Park, Cathcart, Crosshill or even Rutherglen.

Last few games we’ve walked 20 mins to Rutherglen, a pint in the Wetherspooons there, and then a train from there.  Much easier and much more civilised.

I was speaking to a guy in work and he was moaning about Hampden and the transport links. He seemed genuinely shocked that there was other train stations other than Mount Florida.

If i'm getting the train home I'll go to Kings Park as it's usually pretty empty and I can get onto the first train that is going past.

If you're in the South Stand i'd say you're probably marignally closer to Kings Park station anyway.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Lion Rampant

[girvanTA]

Brisk walk to Cathcart and get the train before it gets to Mount Florida, head into Central and make the last train heading for Stranraer with minutes to spare. Cutting it close right enough

[Jacques Hunt]

5 hours ago, Parklife said:

He also said "lets test chemical weapons against those uncivilised brown people" (slight paraphrasing), so i tend to ignore every single thing that odious individual every said. 

I think the horrible c&&t also made reference to a ‘triumphant Aryan stock’ when referring to some commotion involving Chinese people. As many of us are aware the UK has great expertise in propaganda . 

[Mox]

I think Hampden as a stadium, is badly designed and just doesn't facilitate a good football watching experience. In an ideal world it would be knocked down and rebuilt in the mould of the new Juve and Espanyol stadiums, which imo are the best 'new' stadiums about and do have a unique feel rather than the identikit stadiums built by Arsenal, Benfica, Bilbao, Atletico etc.

As for the location, its perfect, there are five stations within the immediate vicinity and another four that can be easily reached with a little extra walking time at Queens Park, Langside, Muirend and Rutherglen. As mentioned earlier, the alternative of a stadium in the middle of nowhere surrounded by parking spaces and some type of modern shopping centre consisting of a Chiquitas, Frankie and Bennys and a Zizzi's doesnt bear thinking about.

[Auld_Reekie]

Let's discount the easy stuff first:

1. No to a new stadium in the middle of nowhere; yes to a city stadium.

2. No to lining the pockets of any club team, especially the Old Firm.

That leaves us with a solution in either Glasgow or Edinburgh, Dundee or Perth (apologies to Aberdeen and Inverness).

Location wise, Perth would be ideal but just doesnt have capacity required and Dundee just doesn't offer enough to beat a national stadium in the two main cities.

Edinburgh doesn't really feel right. Sharing Murrayfield feels a bit naff and to be blunt, I just dont think Edinburgh locals would want it bad enough. Rugby feels more their game and it would seem an injustice to have the national team play there (and I say this as a resident of Edinburgh with a healthy dislike of weegies!). There are a couple of sites around Edinburgh prime for a new shiney stadium with transport links (near Gogar springs to mind), but a lack of pubs would kill that idea stone dead. And it seems ridiculous to to add another good sized stadium in what is a pretty small city. It's either Murrayfield on nothing for Edinburgh IMO, and there would have to be a major investment from both to create a fantastic sporting arena (effectively rebuilding it) and I just don't see SFA investing in it, nor the rugby community being open to it in any way.

As such, it's the Weej for me with the only question remaining whether to stay at Hampden or move. Unless there was an opportunity to build a city-centre stadium (such as Cardiff), there's just not enough incentive to move. It's worth remembering that even if we could build a city centre stadium, the transport links are still crap. Anyone arriving at Queen Street an hour after a game can see how woefully under-prepared we are to transport tens of thousands of fans from the city. Having them all descend on Queen Street 20 minutes after a game would be carnage - the hour it takes to get to town at least tapers the demand somewhat.

On the whole, I'd probably opt for Hampden. It has it's critics but when it's full it's an absolutely incredible atmosphere. But it needs to be owned by the SFA and it needs a massive investment to modernise it. I'd probably support a whole rebuild but I kinda like the bowl. But those discussions are pointless until the SFA own the stadium.

One question though: if the stadium is owned by Queen's Park, rented by the SFA, hosts numerous football games and sells out for concerts... where does all the money go. How come Queen's Park aren't minted and challenging the Old Firm. Who profits from Hampden?

Either way, Hampden for me. 

[DizzyVizion]

On 05/10/2017 at 9:36 AM, er yir macaroon said:

Hampden is not perfect but i agree with the article, it's still amazing when full. Buy it for £1, sink the pitch and put some more seats at either end. LEDs can take care of the grass.

That's what I think should happen too - sink the pitch and continue seating down to pitch side, get rid of the running track.

 

Hampden is an iconic name in world football stadia, and moving the Scotland national team from it should never be up for consideration. End of!

 

 

[Tartan Chris]

How much did the redevelopment actually cost?

Ground with the running track looks much the same as it did in the 70-80s bar the extension and museum.

I'd go for a different option, rotate the games around the country so one of Celtic Park/Ibrox, Tynecastle/Easter Road, Pittodrie and Hampden all get games depending on opposition.

It worked well enough for France 98 qualifiers when Hampden was having its rebuild.

Hampden is great with 40-50k. Less so with 20k for friendlies and qualifiers against Slovenia and Malta. Play those games somewhere else.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Tartan Chris

[Parklife]

The running track is the most pointless heap of pish going. The stadium held an athletics event and the running track had to have a new running track built on top of it, as it wasn't up to standard! 

 

[Tartan Chris]

That's the thing I don't get, Hampden had a running track (it does set it apart as a unique stadium in British football but not great sightlines if you're in the front rows) before redevelopment, gets all the money spent and still has the running track. Apart from the Commonwealth games, what other Athletics events happen?

[McTeeko]

Is it an actual running track though (to standard dimensions)? I always just assumed it was that gravel type surface for pipe bands in the bygone days, and that shape behind the goals to get more punters in. 

Apart from the Commonwealth Games a couple of years ago has it ever been used as an athletics venue?

Edited October 11, 2017 by McTeeko

[deecie]

19 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

Is it an actual running track though (to standard dimensions)? I always just assumed it was that gravel type surface for pipe bands in the bygone days, and that shape behind the goals to get more punters in. 

Apart from the Commonwealth Games a couple of years ago has it ever been used as an athletics venue?

The works they ha to do when hosting the Commonwealth Games suggests its not big enough for running anyway.

[stocky]

5 hours ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Let's discount the easy stuff first:

1. No to a new stadium in the middle of nowhere; yes to a city stadium.

2. No to lining the pockets of any club team, especially the Old Firm.

That leaves us with a solution in either Glasgow or Edinburgh, Dundee or Perth (apologies to Aberdeen and Inverness).

Location wise, Perth would be ideal but just doesnt have capacity required and Dundee just doesn't offer enough to beat a national stadium in the two main cities.

 

 

 

Either way, Hampden for me. 

Whats wrong with Stirling... Between the A9 and the city centre...  

easy roads from north, south, east, fife  and centre belt, Trains from all  as well .. 

Inspiring with Castle, Wallace Monument and Bannockburn all there....

Pubs, accommodation and eateries in Centre. 

Sell Murrayfield  Make a few Million, sell off everything the SFA have and have a National purpose built stadium there,

I realise this is a non do able end game , and no one will have the balls to even open a discussion let alone do anything, 

 but we are having a discussion.

If we were to move /have a new stadium Stirling would be the Ideal place...  

 

The only issue i see against it is of the Two big Glasgow teams get to a Final , then they will be travelling the same direction there and back, However this can be managed.... other countries can manage it and i dont think we will ever get back to those 2 competing in so many finals against each other as they did before (was there actually that many?)

 

But it will be Hampden , i have no great issues with that...  It could be better tho... 

[Stu101]

28 minutes ago, stocky said:

Sell Murrayfield  Make a few Million, sell off everything the SFA have and have a National purpose built stadium there,

Sure the SRU would love that

Don't think they really have an issue. They have a rugby stadium that works well for rugby. Cant see them chucking it and upping sticks randomly north.

[Ormond]

56 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

Is it an actual running track though (to standard dimensions)? I always just assumed it was that gravel type surface for pipe bands in the bygone days, and that shape behind the goals to get more punters in. 

Apart from the Commonwealth Games a couple of years ago has it ever been used as an athletics venue?

Did they not used to have cycling races around it back when Pathe News was the only thing on tele.

[Stu101]

Just now, Ormond said:

Did they not used to have cycling races around it back when Pathe News was the only thing on tele.

I think I've seen pictures of speedway from back in the day.

[Auld_Reekie]

38 minutes ago, stocky said:

Whats wrong with Stirling... Between the A9 and the city centre...  

easy roads from north, south, east, fife  and centre belt, Trains from all  as well .. 

Inspiring with Castle, Wallace Monument and Bannockburn all there....

Pubs, accommodation and eateries in Centre. 

Sell Murrayfield  Make a few Million, sell off everything the SFA have and have a National purpose built stadium there,

I realise this is a non do able end game , and no one will have the balls to even open a discussion let alone do anything, 

 but we are having a discussion.

If we were to move /have a new stadium Stirling would be the Ideal place...  

 

The only issue i see against it is of the Two big Glasgow teams get to a Final , then they will be travelling the same direction there and back, However this can be managed.... other countries can manage it and i dont think we will ever get back to those 2 competing in so many finals against each other as they did before (was there actually that many?)

 

But it will be Hampden , i have no great issues with that...  It could be better tho... 

Stirling suffers for the same reason Perth does - just doesn't have the infrastructure. Train station isnt even close to supporting 40000 fans passingg through, never mind the rail network having the throughput to get trains going north and south quickly enough. Does Stirling have enough pubs - been a while since I was out there, but it has a handful at most.

Bottom line, you just cannot have a national stadium (and a UEFA approved venue) anywhere other than Edinburgh or Glasgow.

[Toepoke]

7 minutes ago, Stu101 said:

I think I've seen pictures of speedway from back in the day.

Aye Glasgow Tigers were based there for a bit...

[Stu101]

7 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Aye Glasgow Tigers were based there for a bit...

Cheers !

[Ormond]

12 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Stirling suffers for the same reason Perth does - just doesn't have the infrastructure. Train station isnt even close to supporting 40000 fans passingg through, never mind the rail network having the throughput to get trains going north and south quickly enough. Does Stirling have enough pubs - been a while since I was out there, but it has a handful at most.

Bottom line, you just cannot have a national stadium (and a UEFA approved venue) anywhere other than Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Correct. Never in a million years should a wee place like Perth get it. 

[Toepoke]

Good photo of the old running track at Hampden, you can see it's certainly not to the dimensions expected for modern competition but it was definitely used for athletic events. Ma grandpa saw Eric Liddell run there...

Btw the crowd at the above game are watching East Fife v Kilmarnock!

 

 

[Auld_Reekie]

That is a fantastic photo. As others have said, drop the pitch, add rows down to pitch side and work on infrastructure around stadium - job done. The hardest thing about Hampden is improving the atmosphere and crowd at middle and lower tier games - would be good if SFA got innovative about engagin supporters instead of pi$$ing them off chasing every pound.

[saintydave]

Are there not issues with lowering the pitch, close to the water table level already?