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New Points Structure For Next Campaign


Gary Stirling

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6 minutes ago, drew said:

You're right that it is not the same system but how many people who go to 2 or 3 away games don't go to most home games? I imagine it's incredibly small. That's why those that moan about not getting a chance of an away ticket still have very little chance.

The change in system will make only an incredibly small difference in who gets tickets for example:

  1. A couple of people who got the last few Lithuania tickets at 3 points might miss out under the new system because they didn't do Canada friendly at home like someone else on 3 points.
  2. A game that currently goes to 0 or 1 away point will mean a regular home attender won't lose out to someone who is going as a one off (how often does this happen)

I'm not suggesting the change is a bad idea just the impact it makes in who currently gets tickets is small. The only big issue I see is how do you administer the sales process. At the moment you could potentially have 11 sales periods (0 - 10 points). The change could mean 31 (0 - 31 points).

"A couple of people who got the last few Lithuania tickets at 3 points might miss out under the new system because they didn't do Canada friendly at home like someone else on 3 points." - in the new system, they would have six points.

Away games get one more point than Home games. Same system. (Assumption being that most (significantly most) people who go to Away matches also go to (the vast majority of) Home matches.

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9 minutes ago, drew said:

You're right that it is not the same system but how many people who go to 2 or 3 away games don't go to most home games? I imagine it's incredibly small. That's why those that moan about not getting a chance of an away ticket still have very little chance.

The change in system will make only an incredibly small difference in who gets tickets for example:

  1. A couple of people who got the last few Lithuania tickets at 3 points might miss out under the new system because they didn't do Canada friendly at home like someone else on 3 points.
  2. A game that currently goes to 0 or 1 away point will mean a regular home attender won't lose out to someone who is going as a one off (how often does this happen)

I'm not suggesting the change is a bad idea just the impact it makes in who currently gets tickets is small. The only big issue I see is how do you administer the sales process. At the moment you could potentially have 11 sales periods (0 - 10 points). The change could mean 31 (0 - 31 points).

That is the thing, the practice and the theory of this proposal are not really as clear as people think.

Granted, a number of people who travel to away games on 5+ points, will mostly all still attend home games (maybe missing the odd qualifier on a Tuesday night, or a friendly here and there up at Aberdeen or through at Easter Road etc) but will still attend high steak matches like England, Germany, Poland, Ireland etc etc... so the points they lose on the grand scale of things is minimal (especially with the large amount of games we have had over the last 3 or 4 years that have went down to zero points)

As you said, when you start getting into games that go down to 2/3 points, this is maybe where it can get a bit unfair, but again, you would assume with the new system that would entice people to come along to get that extra point to give them a wee boost.

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1 minute ago, Flure said:

"A couple of people who got the last few Lithuania tickets at 3 points might miss out under the new system because they didn't do Canada friendly at home like someone else on 3 points." - in the new system, they would have six points.

Away games get one more point than Home games. Same system. (Assumption being that most (significantly most) people who go to Away matches also go to (the vast majority of) Home matches.

Was trying to use an example which i probably didn't explain very well.

Under the current system Lithuania went to 3 points.

Under the proposed system near enough everyone who has a ticket for Lithuania would get one bar a very small number because someone didn't do a home friendly (Some people on 16 points because they did 3 aways and 10 homes, Other 15 because they did 3 aways and 9 homes).

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1 minute ago, drew said:

Was trying to use an example which i probably didn't explain very well.

Under the current system Lithuania went to 3 points.

Under the proposed system near enough everyone who has a ticket for Lithuania would get one bar a very small number because someone didn't do a home friendly (Some people on 16 points because they did 3 aways and 10 homes, Other 15 because they did 3 aways and 9 homes).

This only becomes of a practical consideration if the points "owned" fall on either side of a "Points Group".

I contend that the number of people positively or negatively impacted (from a "can I get a ticket standpoint) will be miniscule.

Take your 15/16 example (which could very well happen). That would only affect a very small group of people. In fact, it would only affect that very small group of people if tickets were opened for scale in "bands" and two of these bands finished at 15 and started at 16. Or if tickets were offered by strict points totals, thus:-

30 points - Monday
29 points - Tuesday
28 points - Wednesday.............

No-one in their right mind (no sniggering at the back) would introduce a system that required umpteen different "windows" for online sales.

Much more likely that, as at present, tickets will be offered in bands.

30-28 - Monday
27-25 - Tuesday
24-22 - Wednesday...........

This further reduces the likelihood, and instances, of people being impacted by the 15/16 split (or any other split)

I maintain that the overall effect will be negligible and that this system does nothing. An overdeveloped piece of bureaucracy that will need monitored and managed. Now, what's the track record? 

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The elephant in the room is they wont sell 35K memberships at £50 a go.
For most games at Hampden (even England!) there was a public sale.
Therefore no one needs points for home games.
Now : if you are no longer guaranteed a match ticket for Hampden then what is the motivation for joining the SSC ?

Most SSC members are currently on 0 or 1 point - attend home matches when they can and perhaps occasional away game.

Edited by Haggis_trap
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19 minutes ago, Flure said:

This only becomes of a practical consideration if the points "owned" fall on either side of a "Points Group".

I contend that the number of people positively or negatively impacted (from a "can I get a ticket standpoint) will be miniscule.

Take your 15/16 example (which could very well happen). That would only affect a very small group of people. In fact, it would only affect that very small group of people if tickets were opened for scale in "bands" and two of these bands finished at 15 and started at 16. Or if tickets were offered by strict points totals, thus:-

30 points - Monday
29 points - Tuesday
28 points - Wednesday.............

No-one in their right mind (no sniggering at the back) would introduce a system that required umpteen different "windows" for online sales.

Much more likely that, as at present, tickets will be offered in bands.

30-28 - Monday
27-25 - Tuesday
24-22 - Wednesday...........

This further reduces the likelihood, and instances, of people being impacted by the 15/16 split (or any other split)

I maintain that the overall effect will be negligible and that this system does nothing. An overdeveloped piece of bureaucracy that will need monitored and managed. Now, what's the track record? 

We're basically agreeing. This will make little difference in who gets a ticket bar a "miniscule" amount.

Not sure about the points sale period though as this is set before any tickets go on sale. You've based on the assumption you know how many tickets you're going to sell above.

Lets take your example of "24-22 - Wednesday" and say there are 300 people in that range but once tickets above have been sold there are only 200 left. You would then need to change the sale dates on the fly and tell people on 22 they now can't buy till Thursday at the last minute. It's at this point you have to question if the idea is in anyway feasible and worth the hassle to please a "miniscule" amount.

But I agree if you can guarantee everyone on 25 points a ticket to begin with then you start 25 and above as we do currently. I was suggesting very extreme and unlikely possibilities.

Edited by drew
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3 hours ago, Flure said:




An overdeveloped piece of bureaucracy that will need monitored and managed. Now, what's the track record? 

It's just pumping in numbers into a spreadsheet. it would be a piece of piss to administer it. Even the SFA have got computers nowadays. Less than a days work for each game.

This is all about trying to sell more tickets for home games and memberships, which is exactly what the SFA should be trying to do.

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

It's just pumping in numbers into a spreadsheet. it would be a piece of piss to administer it. Even the SFA have got computers nowadays. Less than a days work for each game.

This is all about trying to sell more tickets for home games and memberships, which is exactly what the SFA should be trying to do.

EXACTLY what they should be doing is reviewing pricing

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

It's just pumping in numbers into a spreadsheet. it would be a piece of piss to administer it. Even the SFA have got computers nowadays. Less than a days work for each game.

This is all about trying to sell more tickets for home games and memberships, which is exactly what the SFA should be trying to do.

 

A serious move to sell more home tickets? Then sort out the pricing structure. If they are so competent with spreadsheets, then the answer is staring them straight in the face from attendances over the last 5 years - the casual fan isn't interested at current price levels. Introducing a membership scheme will turn even more people off.

As for selling more memberships, the diehards are on board already. They aren't going to persuade anyone else at 50 quid a campaign for the mere promise of a ticket.

Another thing - there are a number of us around the globe for whom getting back to Glasgow for a home game isn't viable for cost reasons and not having unlimited leave entitlement. Add that to the cost of tickets as mentioned above. For some of us it is more practical to commit to away games, hence why the away points system should stay as it is (i.e. attendance at away games is the only criterion), and a new club be introduced for home games. 

Otherwise leave everything as it is - it's working fine as it stands and is administratively manageable for the SFA. So why introduce further complexity?

 

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9 hours ago, Haggis_trap said:

The elephant in the room is they wont sell 35K memberships at £50 a go.
For most games at Hampden (even England!) there was a public sale.
Therefore no one needs points for home games.
Now : if you are no longer guaranteed a match ticket for Hampden then what is the motivation for joining the SSC ?

As suggested earlier in the thread the home points may be needed if we somehow qualify for Euro 2020  and have a reduced allocation for our games at Hampden.

 

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6 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

 

A serious move to sell more home tickets? Then sort out the pricing structure. 

What pricing structure would you suggest? Bearing in mind we sold out England, which was the most expensive game in the campaign. Pricing seems about right to me. If anything we should be charging more. 

Edited by Morrisandmoo
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1 hour ago, Morrisandmoo said:

What pricing structure would you suggest? Bearing in mind we sold out England, which was the most expensive game in the campaign. Pricing seems about right to me. If anything we should be charging more. 

Live in the real World with other working class guys with families and you'll not be saying that. 

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6 hours ago, Ormond said:

Live in the real World with other working class guys with families and you'll not be saying that. 

I don't think the pricing structure is that bad, £125 for me and £50 for the kids for season tickets for 5 games is pretty decent.

They took on board the criticism from last campaign and made the games against the minnows cheaper, £17 and £5 for the Malta game isn't too bad.

If the product on the pitch was better nobody would be complaining. 

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22 minutes ago, hannibal smith said:

I don't think the pricing structure is that bad, £125 for me and £50 for the kids for season tickets for 5 games is pretty decent.

They took on board the criticism from last campaign and made the games against the minnows cheaper, £17 and £5 for the Malta game isn't too bad.

If the product on the pitch was better nobody would be complaining. 

Spot on mate. 

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6 hours ago, Ormond said:

Live in the real World with other working class guys with families and you'll not be saying that. 

You need to live in the real world mate, where eveybody and their dug is paying 100 quid for sky every month. Probably paying for that daft fight next weekend as well. 

We need to charge something at the gate. I agree with Hannibal. £125 is good value compared with other sport/event products. And I doubt many other national teams reduced pricing year on year following supporter feedback. The cost of attending club football week in week out is the problem.

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15 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

 

A serious move to sell more home tickets? Then sort out the pricing structure. If they are so competent with spreadsheets, then the answer is staring them straight in the face from attendances over the last 5 years - the casual fan isn't interested at current price levels. Introducing a membership scheme will turn even more people off.

As for selling more memberships, the diehards are on board already. They aren't going to persuade anyone else at 50 quid a campaign for the mere promise of a ticket.

Another thing - there are a number of us around the globe for whom getting back to Glasgow for a home game isn't viable for cost reasons and not having unlimited leave entitlement. Add that to the cost of tickets as mentioned above. For some of us it is more practical to commit to away games, hence why the away points system should stay as it is (i.e. attendance at away games is the only criterion), and a new club be introduced for home games. 

Otherwise leave everything as it is - it's working fine as it stands and is administratively manageable for the SFA. So why introduce further complexity?

 

This.

I am primarily an away attendee. Home games I'll come up for big games / ones that are actually on a Saturday. But I will take three days off to go to Ljubljana, I won't take 3 days off work to go to Glasgow to watch Scotland v Malta on a Tuesday.

If the SFA want more bums on seats, knock a tenner off the price of all tickets. Make tickets available to print at home, pay at the gates on the night.

Lets not invent a problem and try to solve it. As has been said multiple times. Want a ticket for Dublin? Go to Tbilisi and Friendlies in Poland & Norway, then you will be fine.

Dont go on that the system is ####ed, because it ain't.

J

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I agree with the majority of what's being said here in arguments for introducing home points and arguments against introducing them but as I said earlier in the thread I am basically on the fence as there will be no effect on me or anyone else on 5+ away games who will continue to go to around half of the away and the majority of home games.

However I honestly would love someone to explain how the home points can be policed if they are introduced? IMO they are left wide open for abuse, I'm not saying everyone will do it, but there's arguments for people to do it. Take J for example..He's understandably not going to take 3 days off work for Malta at home due to his location and leave,but under the home points is left open to losing out on an away ticket for Slovenia due to John from Queens Park (who happens to be on the same points) walking to the Malta game with his mates. J forfeits £17 and throws his ticket in the bin, enhancing his chance of a Slovenia ticket. Isn't all of that why the away games are policed with a much smaller allocation than a potential 35k? If the SFA think home point harvesting wont happen they are deluded. Scan everyone's ticket at the gate could be an option, but even then there's no guarantee its not changed hands down the pub.

With the pricing and the purchasing of memberships, as Barney said the "die hard's are already on board" so not much ground to be gained here either for the SFA.

 

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1 hour ago, Mazziessc said:

I agree with the majority of what's being said here in arguments for introducing home points and arguments against introducing them but as I said earlier in the thread I am basically on the fence as there will be no effect on me or anyone else on 5+ away games who will continue to go to around half of the away and the majority of home games.

However I honestly would love someone to explain how the home points can be policed if they are introduced? IMO they are left wide open for abuse, I'm not saying everyone will do it, but there's arguments for people to do it. Take J for example..He's understandably not going to take 3 days off work for Malta at home due to his location and leave,but under the home points is left open to losing out on an away ticket for Slovenia due to John from Queens Park (who happens to be on the same points) walking to the Malta game with his mates. J forfeits £17 and throws his ticket in the bin, enhancing his chance of a Slovenia ticket. Isn't all of that why the away games are policed with a much smaller allocation than a potential 35k? If the SFA think home point harvesting wont happen they are deluded. Scan everyone's ticket at the gate could be an option, but even then there's no guarantee its not changed hands down the pub.

With the pricing and the purchasing of memberships, as Barney said the "die hard's are already on board" so not much ground to be gained here either for the SFA.

 

I think it will lead to a lot more people buying the season ticket for the 5 games or 8 games to get the points because as you say its impossible to police.

Which will then result in there being no imposed collections by the SSC for away games as the aforementioned home points harvesting makes this kind of pointless.

Kind of a win win situation for the SFA 

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1 hour ago, hannibal smith said:

I think it will lead to a lot more people buying the season ticket for the 5 games or 8 games to get the points because as you say its impossible to police.

Which will then result in there being no imposed collections by the SSC for away games as the aforementioned home points harvesting makes this kind of pointless.

Kind of a win win situation for the SFA 

Yup, money making exercise. They will get the money in and still have empty seats.

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