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Team GB Football - Again


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18 hours ago, Alibi said:

Being in favour of a team GB should automatically disqualify you from selection for Scotland.  It might be possible to have joint nationality, but you can't have nested nationalities.  Britain isn't a nation, and if you believe it is, then it implies that Scotland isn't a nation, and nor is England, Wales and NI.

I've maybe worded that first sentence badly.  I can understand that in some sports, Scots currently have no option but to compete as part of a GB team if they want to compete at all (Tennis being one example).  Under these circumstances they generally just keep their mouths shut and get on with it, even though they may not personally be in favour of having a team GB.  If they specifically spoke out and made it clear that they prioritised GB or UK over Scotland, that in my view should mean they aren't selected for Scotland.

Scotland should be competing at the Olympics as Scotland - there are other entities, not even full nations, that take part in the Olympics.  Time to grow up and end the unionist cringe.

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2 hours ago, Alibi said:

I've maybe worded that first sentence badly.  I can understand that in some sports, Scots currently have no option but to compete as part of a GB team if they want to compete at all (Tennis being one example).  Under these circumstances they generally just keep their mouths shut and get on with it, even though they may not personally be in favour of having a team GB.  If they specifically spoke out and made it clear that they prioritised GB or UK over Scotland, that in my view should mean they aren't selected for Scotland.

Scotland should be competing at the Olympics as Scotland - there are other entities, not even full nations, that take part in the Olympics.  Time to grow up and end the unionist cringe.

I agree. 

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21 hours ago, Alibi said:

Scotland should be competing at the Olympics as Scotland - there are other entities, not even full nations, that take part in the Olympics.  

That's certainly one way to end this debate.  I wouldn't mind if we went down this route but I imagine our elite sportsmen and women would be opposed, as many of them would be loathe to leave the TeamGB state funded medal winning machine.

Edited by Toepoke
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From Wiki, but we can't send an Olympic team because we are not a proper country.

Quote

the Olympic Charter has significant barriers to such a team. Since 1995 the Olympic Charter has not allowed for the recognition of non-sovereign nations—section 31.1 of the Olympic Charter states that to be considered a country a nation must be "an independent State recognised by the international community".[9] The Olympic Charter also requires there to be at least five national sporting federations, recognised by the international federations of an Olympic sport. This criterion is currently met, with the relevant sports being (possibly among others) badminton, boxing, curling, field hockey, rugby, and soccer.

 

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On 4/13/2018 at 3:00 AM, Alibi said:

I've maybe worded that first sentence badly.  I can understand that in some sports, Scots currently have no option but to compete as part of a GB team if they want to compete at all (Tennis being one example).  Under these circumstances they generally just keep their mouths shut and get on with it, even though they may not personally be in favour of having a team GB.  If they specifically spoke out and made it clear that they prioritised GB or UK over Scotland, that in my view should mean they aren't selected for Scotland.

Scotland should be competing at the Olympics as Scotland - there are other entities, not even full nations, that take part in the Olympics.  Time to grow up and end the unionist cringe.

just curious ; what passport do you use when you go on your holidays , or have you refused to get one 

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5 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Boring argument always trotted out by Billy Brit. :rolleyes:

just curious ; as i said - if you want to nail your colours to the mast , then you may give up overseas travel and holiday at home, rather than travel under the flag/document of a nation that you don't really feel exists...a similar argument could be made for athletes, who are made to choose to participate at olympics , stay at home or go under a false nation (if that is your belief) although a lifetimes training to achieve olympic participation and potential medal against a two weeks on the lash in magaluf is an unfair comparison - although i'd like to give the boy a chance to respond 

am sure we'll run into each other in mxc city and you can give me your views on independence etc (now that is fking boring....)

mines a dos equis btw

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On 14/04/2018 at 11:40 PM, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

just curious ; what passport do you use when you go on your holidays , or have you refused to get one 

After independence I will have a Scottish passport.  My current passport, on the front of which incidentally is a big "YES" sticker, is merely an administrative necessity.  If I really wanted, I could get a Lithuanian passport, so what's your actual point?

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7 hours ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Your 'point' is a load of bollocks. Right now, we can't use anything other than a 'British' passport and a 'British' drivers license, and pay tax to the 'British' taxman.

Comparison then to original point ; dont hold a passport under a rogue state if you complain about olympic athletes representing same 

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On 14/04/2018 at 11:56 PM, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

just curious ; as i said - if you want to nail your colours to the mast , then you may give up overseas travel and holiday at home, rather than travel under the flag/document of a nation that you don't really feel exists...a similar argument could be made for athletes, who are made to choose to participate at olympics , stay at home or go under a false nation (if that is your belief) although a lifetimes training to achieve olympic participation and potential medal against a two weeks on the lash in magaluf is an unfair comparison - although i'd like to give the boy a chance to respond

OK so you're drawing attention to the idea of personal sacrifice which is a fair parallel.

However it depends if we're talking about normal team GB athletes or footballers. If you're say a track athlete, then you'd be sacrificing almost all of your chances of international representation (other than Commonwealth Games) if you refused to compete under the union flag. Maybe only a diehard Scottish nationalist would do that. That could be the equivalent of what you'd be asking a normal 'nat' to do by refusing to travel abroad on a (UK) passport.

But for football, it's the other way around. Scotland is your normal national team, for all normal occasions, and so you'd be actively undermining your own nation's existence as a sporting nation by taking part in a Team GB charade. Also the chances are it'd be just a minority of individuals actually picked, so you'd be letting down and devaluing your colleagues, left behind. So asking a Scotland footballer to not compete for Team GB would be more like - not giving up your whole passport forever - but just asking an individual not taking up a visa for a visiting a particular country on a particular occasion.

 

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  • 1 year later...
11 hours ago, Toepoke said:

So now if the USA beat France there will a GB women's football team at next year's Olympics....

 

So, have I got this right, they are just labelling the England ladies team as ‘ Great Britain’ ? 

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24 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

So, have I got this right, they are just labelling the England ladies team as ‘ Great Britain’ ? 

England were nominated as the team used to qualify GB for the Olympics.  The criteria is they need to finish in the top 3 European teams at the World Cup. The only way that now can't happen is if France beat the USA tonight and England end up finishing 4th.

 

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25 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

England were nominated as the team used to qualify GB for the Olympics.  The criteria is they need to finish in the top 3 European teams at the World Cup. The only way that now can't happen is if France beat the USA tonight and England end up finishing 4th.

 

When did this happen( England being nominated)  , does GB not mean a team with representation from all 4 nations? Sorry if I am being dense or have missed something, I haven't paid much attention to this, nor have I any desire to see a team GB. Why do they not just represent themselves as ‘England’ given they are the team from the UK which has gone furthest in the tournament?  

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7 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

When did this happen( England being nominated)  , does GB not mean a team with representation from all 4 nations? Sorry if I am being dense or have missed something, I haven't paid much attention to this, nor have I any desire to see a team GB. Why do they not just represent themselves as ‘England’ given they are the team from the UK which has gone furthest in the tournament?  

See page 1 of the thread.

England had to be nominated as there was no way for GB to qualify unless they were Olympic hosts, which caused all the stooshie in 2012 of course.

I guess England alone would probably do pretty well at the Olympics but if they can cherry pick the likes of Kim Little and Erin Cuthbert to strengthen the squad it's a no brainer.

 

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The relevant Scottish football authorities should have absolutely nothing to do with this for the same reasons as for the men's game.  I would hope that our players would tell them to get stuffed if they were asked, in effect, to play for England.

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5 minutes ago, Alibi said:

The relevant Scottish football authorities should have absolutely nothing to do with this for the same reasons as for the men's game.  I would hope that our players would tell them to get stuffed if they were asked, in effect, to play for England.

This is where I was getting confused. From the below BBC webpage it looks like it is the England team ( as it currently stands) that  would be team GB, it doesn't make it clear that players from other home nations would be included. 

 

Great Britain among favourites for Olympic spots

The World Cup doubles up as Olympic qualifying for the European nations but there are only three spots available.

If multiple teams go out at the same time to leave fewer than three teams in the competition, there will also be an Olympic qualifying tournament for the last place(s).

With seven European teams remaining, France, Germany and Great Britain (England) are the favourites to represent Europe in the women's football competition at the 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo.

  • If France are eliminated by the United States, the winners of the other three quarter-finals will all qualify for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.
  • If France beat the USA, the winners of the semi-finals will qualify for the 2020 Olympic Games and will be joined by the winners of the bronze final.
  • Germany, the Netherlands and England (Great Britain) are the favourites to represent Europe in the women's football competition at the 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo.
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2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

This is where I was getting confused. From the below BBC webpage it looks like it is the England team ( as it currently stands) that  would be team GB, it doesn't make it clear that players from other home nations would be included. 

 

Great Britain among favourites for Olympic spots

The World Cup doubles up as Olympic qualifying for the European nations but there are only three spots available.

If multiple teams go out at the same time to leave fewer than three teams in the competition, there will also be an Olympic qualifying tournament for the last place(s).

With seven European teams remaining, France, Germany and Great Britain (England) are the favourites to represent Europe in the women's football competition at the 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo.

  • If France are eliminated by the United States, the winners of the other three quarter-finals will all qualify for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.
  • If France beat the USA, the winners of the semi-finals will qualify for the 2020 Olympic Games and will be joined by the winners of the bronze final.
  • Germany, the Netherlands and England (Great Britain) are the favourites to represent Europe in the women's football competition at the 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo.

I think that just refers to the qualification process.  If GB are at the Olympics they'll be free to pick anyone eg. Kim Little played for them in 2012.

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49 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

I think that just refers to the qualification process.  If GB are at the Olympics they'll be free to pick anyone eg. Kim Little played for them in 2012.

👍

What would have happened if, by some miracle, Scotland had been one of the  top 3 ? I know this would have been a highly unlikely scenario but would GB have missed out on a place because England were the nominated team ?  

 

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24 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

👍

What would have happened if, by some miracle, Scotland had been one of the  top 3 ? I know this would have been a highly unlikely scenario but would GB have missed out on a place because England were the nominated team ?  

Aye Scotland didn't count, so unless England finished 4th in that case there would be no Team GB next year.  Otherwise there would have been serious complaints if GB had more than one opportunity to qualify. 

 

 

 

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