HUNTINGMcGREGOR Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 The Fire Strategy for Multi Storey Blocks has always been to remain in the property as the building has been compartmentalised - reducing the spread of fire - this is the Fire Services recommended strategy. This is an old strategy from the 60's and I do not think anyone has considered the changes from altering the construction with a cladded facade. Panels used in Scottish Schools (pre PPP/PFI) for refurbishment always specified "encapsulated panels", which effectively sealed the insulation within the panel, as opposed to a "sandwich" in which the "filling"or insulation is exposed. I got caught out on this on a job I estimated in the early 90's for a school refurb in Stirling - we allowed for 20/m2 panels - specification was for 85/m2 encapsulated panels which the council insisted on for obvious reasons - someone had done their homework. We lost a fortune on that job - but the kids were safe. It has suddenly dawned on me that with the Schools PPP/PFI scandal - we should be checking the specification of the panels - as the schools were "value engineered" by the Builder Amey/Miller JV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Remember the flooding in the southern Tory heartlands few years back Hammond and co standing there in there wellys saying this and that on speed dial to the army to sort the flooding out fact of the matter these heartless Tory bastards could not care less about these poor folk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I'm sure I just heard Charlie Stayt say on BBC news this morning that the type of cladding used is illegal in both Germany and the USA. If that is the case then there should be hell to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, Fairbairn said: I'm sure I just heard Charlie Stayt say on BBC news this morning that the type of cladding used is illegal in both Germany and the USA. If that is the case then there should be hell to pay. Didn't hear about Germany but I think they said in the USA it was allowed on smaller buildings - can't remember the amount of flights they said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Someone has to go to jail for this. It went up like a christmas tree. I am just stunned that you could be allowed to clad a tower block in flammable materials. It is mind bending when you consider Towers have been long recognized as dangerous in a fire (had no one seen the Towering Inferno FFS). To wrap the tower in something that burns this rapidly is beyond belief. Daily Mail reported that 6 other towers in London alone are like this. If some nutter wanted to they could start a fire in a lower flat in the dead of night and cause another one.I would not be able to live in those towers after seeing this one.Death traps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Fairbairn said: I'm sure I just heard Charlie Stayt say on BBC news this morning that the type of cladding used is illegal in both Germany and the USA. If that is the case then there should be hell to pay. I heard yesterday it's illegal in Scotland too!??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggycoo Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Read somewhere that a local councillor suggested that not all the tenants were in agreement about installing sprinklers during its renovation, something about it delaying renovations even longer and being disruptive to residents - nothing like a politician deflecting blame from the authorities and start putting the blame on the residents for not universally agreeing. The bit they don't mention is they had no intention of putting a sprinkler system in so if they wanted one at the time then they would most likely have to pay for it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 You'd think there would be a figure for how many people were missing by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Sajid Javid got a thorough kicking from John Humphries on Radio four this morning. Basically over past reviews and recommendations not being implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNTINGMcGREGOR Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/london-cladding-link-to-2014-melbourne-fire/news-story/d173b0d8f3bb9410cc2ab7cd63b3daf8 Edited June 16, 2017 by HUNTINGMcGREGOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: You'd think there would be a figure for how many people were missing by now. Part of the problem must be the fact that they're obviously unable to say exactly who was in the building at the time. Residents might be away on holiday, working nightshift etc and other folk might have had friends or family visiting or staying with them. I can't even begin to imagine how they'll ever be able to say for certain how many people perished and who exactly they all were. It's awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 11 hours ago, aaid said: I doubt it's any conspiracy in the way you describe it. That wouldn't be a conspiracy. A conspiracy is 2 or more folk getting together in secret to do something illegal. Drip feeding information is spin. Remember there were emails going about on 9/11 pointing out now was the time to release news as it would be buried. Everyone i've spoken to with a half a clue (i have zero clue on this) think it;s going to be triple figures, it's harrowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, biffer said: Sajid Javid got a thorough kicking from John Humphries on Radio four this morning. Basically over past reviews and recommendations not being implemented. Apparently wrong about the Coroner's recommendations as well, stated in interview (i've read, not seen it myself yet.) that there was no recommendation to review the building regulations. However when you read the report (see below) he clearly did. https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ec-letter-to-DCLG-pursuant-to-rule43-28March2013.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I actually feel more shocked and upset by this than I have by recent terrorist attacks. I read an article in the Times yesterday and was actually crying. I also read that some guy had been arrested for opening the polythene that a body was covered in and took a photo of the corpse and posted it on Facebook ? Wtf , is that really true? We had a fire in our house years ago, the washer / dryer overheated and went on fire. In comparison to this it was nothing, but I was so frightened and in total shock I could not even think straight . My youngest daughter was in a cot upstairs and i completely forgot. These poor people, what a terrible way for your life to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 hour ago, wee-toon-red said: Part of the problem must be the fact that they're obviously unable to say exactly who was in the building at the time. Residents might be away on holiday, working nightshift etc and other folk might have had friends or family visiting or staying with them. I can't even begin to imagine how they'll ever be able to say for certain how many people perished and who exactly they all were. It's awful. Not to mention flats being sub-let out. I doubt they'll ever find the exact number. You just need to look at the number of names scribbled on the whiteboard at the scene to believe we could be looking at hundreds of deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I think the authorities are trying to conceal the number of fatalities until they can work out how to wriggle out of taking any responsibility. Must have been something like 500 people in the block. Who on earth took a deliberate and calculated decision to save £2 a panel by using flammable units? Why is using flammable panels even an option, if indeed it is permitted? If it's not, whoever is responsible for that decision is likely to end up in court. I have had concerns for quite some time about the way most larger projects nowadays are design-build, with extreme pressure to cut costs. The old system where there was a design team whose members made decisions about design and specification of materials in an independent manner, and whose fees were paid by the client rather than by the contractor/developer, was far better as they had no direct financial incentive to cut costs unreasonably. PFI has a lot to answer for. Most PFI structures are shoddy rubbish designed to last until the day after the contract expires and to self destruct immediately thereafter (OK, that last bit is maybe a bit too quantum but they would do that if the could). This is a national scandal in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Yeah alibi planned obsolescence is what they call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Not to mention flats being sub-let out. I doubt they'll ever find the exact number. You just need to look at the number of names scribbled on the whiteboard at the scene to believe we could be looking at hundreds of deaths. I'm not not necessarily saying that this is the case in Grenfell Tower but a few years back I was out for a drink with my mate who works at RBKC and I met a colleague of his who was a sort of enforcement officer for sub-letting. He was telling me that it's a huge problem at RBKC, because of the high rents in the private rental market you could get a situation where someone could get a 2 bed council flat - and I'm making the numbers up here but you get the general picture - for £500 a month and sub-let that for 3, 4 or 5 times that, it's probably a lot more. Not that it matters whether or not someone who died was a genuine tenant of the council or not but it shows the difficulty in trying to establish all the victims. Edited June 16, 2017 by aaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, aaid said: I'm not not necessarily saying that this is the case in Grenfell Tower but a few years back I was out for a drink with my mate who works at RBKC and I met a colleague of his who was a sort of enforcement officer for sub-letting. He was telling me that it's a huge problem at RBKC, because of the high rents in the private rental market you could get a situation where someone could get a 2 bed council flat - and I'm making the numbers up here but you get the general picture - for £500 a month and sub-let that for 3, 4 or 5 times that, it's probably a lot more. Not that it matters whether or not someone who died was a genuine tenant of the council or not but it shows the difficulty in trying to establish all the victims. That was the case thirty years ago too, when I was down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) On 15/06/2017 at 10:32 AM, EddardStark said: Wouldn't be surprised if we see some rioting in the next few days, its the perfect mixture for the forgotten class to quickly turn anger into violence. Wouldn't blame them in the slightest to be honest. Edited June 16, 2017 by Mox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Looks like it is getting rowdy already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, Mox said: Wouldn't be surprised if we see some rioting in the next few days, its the perfect mixture for the forgotten class to quickly turn anger into violence. Wouldn't blame them in the slightest to be honest. Also gonna hit over 30c..perfect conditions.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 PM to offer £5m fund for emergency supplies Theresa May has announced a £5m fund for emergency supplies, food and clothing during a meeting with survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster, Downing Street said. Not quite sure she has a handle on this...could have been promised 2 days ago.... The witch will be gone within 4 weeks - roll in Boris...FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Right... riot like last time... where they went about setting buildings on fire... makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 9 hours ago, TDYER63 said: I actually feel more shocked and upset by this than I have by recent terrorist attacks. I read an article in the Times yesterday and was actually crying. I also read that some guy had been arrested for opening the polythene that a body was covered in and took a photo of the corpse and posted it on Facebook ? Wtf , is that really true? We had a fire in our house years ago, the washer / dryer overheated and went on fire. In comparison to this it was nothing, but I was so frightened and in total shock I could not even think straight . My youngest daughter was in a cot upstairs and i completely forgot. These poor people, what a terrible way for your life to end. That guy your talking about is sadly true he was given today 3 months in prison for posting that picture online according to the guardian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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