ParisInAKilt Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Dave78 said: Don't get me wrong Paris, i enjoy reading your posts and respect where you're coming from. But it must be hard being a left-leaning progressive and knowing you voted for Brexit which has enabled the biggest lurch to the right that Britain has seen since, well, ever. I didn’t vote. Brexit, I even feel dirty using that term is the biggest divide and conquer strategy I think the UK has experienced. 2 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said: I'm no the most political savvy person in the world but surely all this labelling everything left wing or right wing is part of the problem? Can people not have different views from each other without being labelled? Absolutely no place for any nuance. You’re either right or left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: I didn’t vote. Brexit, I even feel dirty using that term is the biggest divide and conquer strategy I think the UK has experienced. Ok, but you supported Britain leaving the EU, unless i'm mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 When it comes to humanity, politics today are either progressive or regressive Left and Right are boogy men statements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Dave78 said: They're all cúntz, but it's yer democratic duty to vote in the less evil cúnt Who decides who’s less evil? Maybe I know more about the EU than your average voter and even now I’ve no idea what’s going on. Who do you believe? Merkel or May? The guardian or the daily mail? My instinct these days is to assume the politicians are puppets, don’t see any reason to assume it’s any different with Brexit. It might be decades before we have any idea what’s really going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dave78 said: Ok, but you supported Britain leaving the EU, unless i'm mistaken? Instinctively yes as it could lead to decentralised power but I don’t know now, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: When it comes to humanity, politics today are either progressive or regressive Left and Right are boogy men statements It’s far more complex than that. Obama was a progressive and the fast majority of people think he was great for humanity. He was neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Instinctively yes as it could lead to decentralised power but I don’t know now, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I hear you. Interesting you mention instinct. I nearly voted for Brexit (because i share all of the same issues i have with the EU as i think you do also), yet i voted remain. It felt instinctively wrong to vote with the Farage's of British politics. That plus i was influenced by Paul Mason when i watched him on Question Time explaining that he would support leaving the EU, but not while the Tories were in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dave78 said: I hear you. Interesting you mention instinct. I nearly voted for Brexit (because i share all of the same issues i have with the EU as i think you do also), yet i voted remain. It felt instinctively wrong to vote with the Farage's of British politics. That plus i was influenced by Paul Mason when i watched him on Question Time explaining that he would support leaving the EU, but not while the Tories were in charge. Yeah he was one of the few commentators at the time who I could watch and not want to punch myself in the face. I see his point about the Tories but would Labour be any better? The “left” appear to live in an endless cycle of hoping for the right government who will do the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 4/25/2017 at 6:33 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: Is there a point in which sturgeon would have to consider her position as leader, say the party fails to get 35 seat On 5/4/2017 at 2:19 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: Maybe i am being dramatic but the snp are heading for a epic thumping in moray and aberdeenshire,, I was talking to a local councillor today who has been elected for over 30 years, he thinks that will be him gone after today, he's saying that he is getting the same reaction towards the snp which labour had after the Referendum,,,another conversation i had was with a long time snp supporter who says he will vote snp in the locals but no way will he vote snp on the GE as "sturgeon".. i wish this election was over so we know where we stand,,time to regroup and move forward On 5/5/2017 at 1:50 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: Maybe me saying anything above 35 seats is a good result is Not that pessimistic On 5/6/2017 at 11:58 AM, hampden_loon2878 said: No i am just gutted that alec salmonds back yard will turn blue due to the total disregard shown by sturgeon,someone accused me of having the blinkers on earlier,, i had to laugh at that as some on here actually think that was a positive result for the snp/independence. Some of the most patriotic hardened SNP supporters i know either abstained or voted for other parties,, that takes some doing On 5/6/2017 at 1:25 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: This board needs balance to it,, hopefully i add a bit to it...TM will be probably now grant scotland a referendum at the next possible stage as its now apparent that she likes to strike while the iron is hot....when the next referendum is signed it will have a clause of some type in it like no referendum within 15 years On 5/16/2017 at 12:27 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: To start with i thought sturgeon knew what she was doing and had a plan,, i now think she has no real plan and has became rattled as if she has just realised that she has pissed off a good bit of the party's supporters.. regardless of what anyone says aboot the local elections it was a bit of a bloody nose for the party,, and a wake up call,, the posturing from sturgeon of late gives out the signals of a worried leader, maybe internal polling has her worried ied.Here's my prediction for the next polling. Snp 39% toriex 32% On 5/28/2017 at 7:31 AM, hampden_loon2878 said: Polling terrible, i would snap yer hand off for 45 seats https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1069407/poll-snp-mp-at-risk-three-year-low-general-election/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TheScottishSun-_-News-_-FBLink-_-Statement-_-FBPAGE On 5/28/2017 at 9:31 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: Agree completely,, thats where salmond was a master, he managed to apeal left and right,, loved his political stance,, sturgeon is leaning left which is worrying many, especially buisness backers,,,I honestly dont think sturgeon is up to it and it worrys me how much folk she will drive away. On 6/3/2017 at 4:35 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: Anything above 40 is a fantastic result, anything below 35 is bad result,,,i will be honest i think the press have over played how much support there is for the snp, knowing full well they are going to lose a lot of seats and when they do it will come as a shock for everyone,,,, The SNP seem to be out of new good ideas, when the election kicked off there was no angles to the election from us in the northeast,, i messaged every single snp hub with one idea i had regarding the closure of rural schools in the are in which the tory councils tried to do back in 2014 in aberdeenshire and moray(I actually started a topic on here regarding it) it looks like they are running with that as a main issue in the area but why did they not have this rammed down our throats in the council elections..wheres the ideas wheres the vision? The "old policies" are losing their shine. Things like the council tax freeze, scrapping bridge tolls, free prescriptions although very good policies are just seen as normal now,, the party need a fresh wave of ideas, what worries me is how intertwined the snp and independence are,, if the snp f#ck up then that is it.. On 6/5/2017 at 4:08 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: I said when the GE was called 35 seats would he a good result,, inwas laughed at,, that was before the council elections as well,, i stick by rhe 35 seats On 6/8/2017 at 11:02 PM, hampden_loon2878 said: 34 seats exit poll i said 35 when the election was anounced and was laughed at On 6/9/2017 at 12:27 AM, hampden_loon2878 said: We are in for a thumping,,simple as!!! Just re-reading this thread (or the first half or so in the run up to the GE last year) and I did not quite realize just how on the money you were and so far ahead of the actual election (on June 8th). You had the piss ripped out of you pretty much all the way through as well. Remarkable. Not only were you calling the result (which you pretty much nailed) but you also kept raising your perceived problems with Sturgeon. Those views on Sturgeon were also mocked but unlike your election prediction coming true (which could not be denied) your points on Sturgeon were effectively ignored and still are. On 5/12/2017 at 5:36 PM, aaid said: Is there an echo in here? You better believe there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) On 5/29/2017 at 10:06 AM, Alibi said: Pish. Sturgeon is extremely popular, probably more so than Salmond actually; however clearly she is unpopular amongst the Britnats simply because she is good and they fear her. You really are the Cassandra of the indy movement, aren't you? Seems this was right, Cassandra cursed to prophecise the truth but no one believed it. If we take it as the Cassandra from Greek Mythology. Edited November 13, 2018 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Loon was bang on indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Brexit and the EU played a big part in these areas - more than the personalities of Salmond and Sturgeon IMO However there is no doubt they were outflanked by the snap general election and their campaign was poor Lesson learned hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I'd use the parameters that Loon used to make his prediction. Since he got it right as opposed to ad hoc post event rationalisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) The parameters was the Brexit vote in June 2016 The SNP is a pro European party The SNP respected the votes of the Scottish electorate to remain The snap General election 12 months later was around brexit The Tories were the difinitive party of leave and could make all sorts of promises and not be held to account with the media The SNP did not represent those that wanted to leave the EU If Salmond had been leader what could he have done differently ? Sturgeon and the SNP made all the arguments for what would likely happen and predicted betrayal Edited November 13, 2018 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) On 6/28/2017 at 12:30 PM, min said: Agree with a lot of that. Someone wrote on here recently that the SNP have attracted socialists as opposed to creating nationalists and that could be pretty close to the truth. The centre right electorate is far larger in Scotland than many believe - a fair chunk of those would sympathetic to independence. Ultimately, Yes voters from 2014 need to ask themselves which would the they prefer to live in - an independent Scotland with Ruth Davidson as PM or a UK led by Jeremy Corbyn. Only when the majority would prefer the former is independence a certainty. This was another post that I'd forgotten about but which now especially seems very prescient. It is even worse in my view as genuine socialists are at least semi rational. The ideological cancer that has it seems got into the SNP and is taking it over is all this poisonous identity / 'progressive' politics... On 10/22/2017 at 2:22 AM, Ally Bongo said: When it comes to humanity, politics today are either progressive or regressive Left and Right are boogy men statements This pish. It is an absolute political dead end and will cost the SNP big time as sadly this is the road upon which Nicola has embarked. IMHO the evident cult around Nicola is actually far more tangible and real than the alleged cult ever was around Alex. And you will note her strongest acolytes on here are typically deep identity politics ideologues. I think you have to suspect this is because this is what Nicola herself believes is the future of the SNP. She is going to do a lot more damage before folk wake up to it I think. The SNP would likely be in power for 5-10 years at least post YES if it ever happened. They could fuck things up so badly in that time with all this garbage that they tarnish Independence irrevocably. I am not sure I could trust them to be the vehicle for achieving Independence at this point and as much as I want it I'd struggle to give them my vote now. Edited November 13, 2018 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 What are the "left-wing" policies. Sturgeon wanted to introduce named guardians for everyone that's an authoritarian policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, phart said: What are the "left-wing" policies. Sturgeon wanted to introduce named guardians for everyone that's an authoritarian policy. Guardian has a very specific legal definition wrt to children. Its misleading in the extreme to use that in relation to the named person legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 hours ago, thplinth said: Just re-reading this thread (or the first half or so in the run up to the GE last year) and I did not quite realize just how on the money you were and so far ahead of the actual election (on June 8th). You had the piss ripped out of you pretty much all the way through as well. Remarkable. Not only were you calling the result (which you pretty much nailed) but you also kept raising your perceived problems with Sturgeon. Those views on Sturgeon were also mocked but unlike your election prediction coming true (which could not be denied) your points on Sturgeon were effectively ignored and still are. You better believe there is. To be fair it could have been a lot worse, its very tough to see my constituency which to me,was the SNP heartland, i was once told that banff and buchan represented the true scotland, not left nor right with a naturally nationalist population whom want to work hard and better themselves, That election was the perfect storm for the snp, the buisness rate fiasco just prior to the local elections, brexit cemennting a stick on increase tory vote, the results in the local elections giving unionists the obvious choice who to vote for tactically.They all joined together to have the snp’s back against the wall. The northeast will go back to yellow next elections if you take the snp vote in moray and BnB their vote was similar to that in 2010 it was just that the brexit contingent voted tory, that wont happen next time My opinion on sturgeon is still that she is compromised, however its not near so bad as you think(i really hope its not that bad haha) she is still the best we have but the media are just relentless in their smears against her, the party have done some fantastic things such as crime rates, homicide, road deaths, employed, Renewables ect but some policies have been introduced to quickly, the timing of introducing a policy is as important as the policy itself as far as i am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, aaid said: Guardian has a very specific legal definition wrt to children. Its misleading in the extreme to use that in relation to the named person legislation. Just as well we're on a football message board and not a court room then. What is the definition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I'm sure you can google it yourself but essentially its when someone takes on the same legal rights and responsibilities for a child as their parents - usually but not exclusively when both parents are dead. That's a million miles away from what the Named Person legislation proposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, aaid said: I'm sure you can google it yourself but essentially its when someone takes on the same legal rights and responsibilities for a child as their parents - usually but not exclusively when both parents are dead. That's a million miles away from what the Named Person legislation proposes. I tried googling first before asking. You said " Guardian has a very specific legal definition wrt to children " I'm asking you what it is, as i can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Looking like there will be another one before Christmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 38 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Looking like there will be another one before Christmas There won’t be a one this year as parliament don’t vote on the brexit deal until mid December however there’s sure to be one early spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 39 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Looking like there will be another one before Christmas where are you hearing this? or just a hunch... i dont think so.... they will fudge it till March then a new Tory leader will take over, no election IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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